Stewart and Young of Rox.

[J Wall]

I recently found out that I have two ancestors from Roxburghshire. One of them had the surname Stewart while the other one, who married into the Stewart family, had the last name Young. They were apparently married in Kelso, Roxburghshire. I am trying to find out what tartan they might have worn/seen. They were married in the 1820's (if that's of any help). Could anyone please help me tell me or point me in a direction where I might be able to find out more?

[hdw]

I had Stewart ancestors myself in Kelso. They were butchers.

The only tartans they would have seen would have been if any Scottish army regiments passed through the town. It was only with the visit of King George IV to Scotland in, I think, 1822, that tartans became fashionable, and that had a lot to do with Sir Walter Scott trying to encourage a bit of colourful pageantry to make the king's visit memorable for him.

Lowlanders mostly wore quite dull brown or grey clothes, similar to what was worn in England, although the Scots favoured floppy flat caps, a bit like berets. In my lifetime (I'm 64) there has been an explosion in the popularity of tartans and kilts, and young men often get married in kilts these days, which was almost unknown in my younger days. People with non-Highland names like Smith, Brown, Watson etc. will look up books on clans and septs to discover which tartan they are "entitled" to wear, but it's really a load of nonsense! Americans love that kind of stuff, and the tartan shops in places like Edinburgh encourage them in their delusions.

For example, if your name is Watson, you will find that the clan books tell you that you belong to the Clan Buchanan, and you are "entitled" to wear the Buchanan tartan. But the Buchanans were a Gaelic-speaking clan in the Loch Lomond area in the west of Scotland, whereas my Watsons were fisherfolk on the east coast, in Fife, and had absolutely nothing to do with Buchanans or any other Highlanders at any point in their history.

Your interest is in Stewarts, and of course that's a fine Highland name, with an array of tartans for you to choose from. But it's also a common name all over the Lowlands, and my butcher Stewarts in Kelso are unlikely ever to have worn a tartan garment in their lives and certainly wouldn't have been seen dead wearing a kilt (there wasn't much love lost between Highlanders and Lowlanders).

Harry (Watson)

[J Wall]

So, my Stewart and Young ancestors would have more than likely have been wearing what ever was typical to wear at that time period in (Northern?) England? The clothing would probably have been of a rather dull/drab colour?

My parents live in America and there's a rather large amount of Scottish festivals around where they live. My father has always felt a bit odd about the whole "Scottish-American kilt wearing" thing for the reasons you've stated and not being so sure our ancestors would have ever worn it. Although, one of his employees has always been pushing him to buy a kilt to wear to the games. Until I started doing this research, the only thing we knew is that we were from the Stewart clan from some garments (a knit tam in the [Royal? or Dress] Stewart tartan and a Glengarry cap) that have been passed down for several generations. So, when my dad's employee keeps telling him to buy a kilt he could probably show him this picture http://classicbookscompany.net/Scott/Sir_Walter_Scott.jpg and say our ancestors were probably wearing something like that with their floppy tam cap?

[hdw]

I've been trying to find pictures of rustic Scottish clothing on the internet for you, as 'one picture is worth a thousand words', but of course when you Google "Scottish dress" or "Scottish costume" they think you are looking for kilts and plaids, etc., to buy. The cheap hard-wearing clothes of our peasant ancestors aren't sexy, and you would need to look at a book on Scottish history with maybe some paintings of peasant scenes to see what they looked like.

In your pic of Sir Walter Scott he is wearing the typical gentleman's clothes of the early 19th century which would have been worn all over the UK and abroad.

Re Stewart and Young in Kelso, a John Stewart and Ann Young were married there in 1716, but of course that's a century before your ancestors.

I'm grateful to you for your original post, because it made me look again at my Stewart of Kelso family-tree; I realised that I had taken the marriage of my 6 x great-grandparents Thomas Stewart and Susannah Miller in 1716 from the IGI without ever checking the Kelso OPR - and when I checked the OPR just now online (Scotlandspeople) I discovered that Susannah Miller was actually in the parish of Fogo, Berwickshire, at the time of her marriage. I thought she was a Kelso native like Thomas Stewart. But she is probably the Susannah Miller born in Fogo in 1688 to John Miller and Jeane Haig. So I'm now beginning to construct a Miller/Haig family-tree in Fogo!

Harry

[Sunlaws]

Harry is right about the small likelihood of your ancestors having worn tartan. There is an informative article on dress here:

http://www.tartansauthority.com/resources/archives/the-archives/harrison/tartan

The usual wear for common folk was a coarse woollen cloth called 'hodden grey', an undyed cloth whose colour varied depending on the proportion of black, brown or white fleeces that had gone into the mix. In 'A man's a man' Burns says:
'What though on hamely fare we dine, wear hodden grey and a' that'.

Although the names STEWART and YOUNG are common in Kelso, it may also be worth remembering that both names feature prominently among the gypsy families in neighbouring Kirk Yetholm.

Regards,

Lesley

[J Wall]

Re Harry
So, Sir Walter Scott is wearing what would be typical for a gentleman, but the 'typical' towns person and country people would be wearing something different? The typical country person would be wearing the Hodden Grey that Lesley mentions which could, I guess, mean that similar clothing could be found all over this area of Britain.

Re Lesley
Would there be anyway I could find out if my ancestors would have been gypsies? I should mention that while my ancestors were married in Kelso they were from Morebattle.

-John

[Sunlaws]

Hi John

It looks as though they were actually married in Morebattle, assuming that it is James STEWART and Elizabeth YOUNG that you are talking about. Couples usually married in the bride's parish, and indeed there are lots of YOUNG baptisms in Morebattle, though sadly not a suitable one for Elizabeth. There are no STEWART baptisms in Morebattle, though there are a number in Yetholm, though not a suitable one for James.
James and Elizabeth had a daughter Margaret baptised in Morebattle in 1825 and a daughter Mary baptised in Yetholm in 1828. Do you know of any other children?

Have you found any record where James' occupation is stated? Occupation is a good clue to identifying gypsies, who are usually described as 'mugger' (maker of rough earthern ware), 'horner' (maker of horn spoons), ' basket maker ' or simply 'hawker'.

Poorer people aspired to dress as fashionably as their richer brethren, and there was a ready market for second hand clothes. Sir David Wilkie's 'A Penny Wedding' painted in 1818 should give you some idea of dress among poorer people of the period in Scotland. See it here:

http://www.abcgallery.com/W/wilkie/wilkie5.html

regards,

Lesley

[J Wall]

Hi Lesley,
Yes, it is James STEWART and Elizabeth YOUNG that I am talking about. You were able to look for baptisms for Elizabeth? Unfortunately, I have not yet had the chance. Could it be that she moved to the area? Or, could it be that her family was too poor? The only child that I know about that they had was James STEWART (Jr.?) b. 1841 d. 1917 in Canada (Quebec, I think) and married Marian SMITH. I know nothing about a Margaret, but am keen to know more!

From what I have found, the Stewarts were farmers first in Scotland then emigrated to Canada and carried on farming. As far as wealth in Scotland, I am not sure, but by the time they married into the WALL side of my family (aprox. 1880) they had accumulated quite a large amount of wealth -- enough to buy/build a two story Victorian/Gingerbread style house in lower Ontario with a large amount of acreage (I have a picture of it somewhere).

Ah, so, as one would expect the less wealthy clothing was rather more conservative compared to that of the wealthy? To me, it looks as if the participants in that painting you gave a link to dress similar to American Colonials in the late 1700's or the farmers from paintings by John Constable. Would that be too much of a stretch or how 'correct' would that view be?

Thank you,
John

P.S. I'm finding this very interesting considering my background in anthropology and archaeology. I have recently started a M.A. in Roman Archaeology where I am looking at identity. I was drawn to the university I am at by a professor that published several books and other works on Celtic identity. It's interesting how groups can attempt to polarize their identities (creating a seeming binary relationship) only to obscure the seeming grey scale that probably existed.

[Sunlaws]

Hi John

I originally looked up the baptisms by using the free site:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm

where you can look up the IGI batches according to place.

This is how I ascertained that there were no recorded baptisms in Yetholm or Morebattle for James STEWART or Elizabeth YOUNG. Children did not have to be taken to church to be baptised- a minister would often baptise children while doing the rounds of his parish, and whether the baptism got recorded in the register was a matter of luck.

Becoming curious about your couple, I used some credits on Scotlandspeople which were about to expire (though, almost magically I then got an email from Scotlandspeople giving me a code which would grant a further 90 days for credits about to expire....!).

I discovered that on 5th March 1824 they appeared before the Kirk Session in Morebattle with a certificate that they had been irregularly married (probably at the marriage house at Coldstream, though it doesn't say as much). James STEWART also produced a character reference and a certificate to say that he had not been previously married. The Kirk Session agreed to confirm the marriage. Couples often chose to marry irregularly at Coldstream, Lamberton Toll or, most famously, at Gretna, if parental consent was likely to be withheld.

Regards,

Lesley