Robert William Buck - COMPLETED WITH THANKS

[Luzzu]

Hi,

I have been searching for information about my gt grandfather for sometime and believed that his WW1 military record did not survive.  I have now received my grandfather's WW2 records and it mentions his father but even though I now have his number, rank and regiment I am still struggling.

So this is what I have:-

Robert William Buck born 18 Oct 1886 Shorncliffe Camp, Kent;

Married Kate Temple on 26 Sept 1910 at Elham Registry Office - occupation was Bandsman 2nd Kings Royal Rifles;

Died 18 Dec 1850 in Aldershot, aged 64;

Mentioned on a document dated 1927 in my grandfather's WW2 record as "5875117 LCpl Buck RW 1st Btn Northamptonshire Regiment";

Apart from the above I don't know anything else although my uncle told he  that he received a gunshot wound to the neck.

I have seen a medal card for a soldier in the Northamptonshire Regiment but the number doesn't match and I thought soldiers kept the same number throughout their service.

Also is it possible that the MoD still have this records?  Last year I applied to the MoD but they returned my cheque and application saying "The Ministry of Defence holds the records of soldiers who left the Army in January 1921 or later and officers who left the Army after March 1922".  As my gt grandfather was mentioned in my grandfather's record on a document dated 1927 and their home address was "Married Quarters Blackday or Blackdown" I think he was still serving at that time.  Should I re-apply?

Can anyone help please?

Thank you.

Luzzu

[jds1949]

There is this man:

Medal card of    Buck, Robert W
Corps:   Northamptonshire Regiment
Regiment No:   9839
Rank:   Private

The four digit service number would suggest someone with pre-war service - if he was still serving in 1916 then he would have been re-numbered, perhaps to the 7 digit number that you have - his MIC may just be indexed with his original number.

He would seem to be the only R W Buck with a MIC for that regiment.

jds1949

[Luzzu]

Thanks for your reply. From what you said about the 4 digit number indicating a soldier who has pre-WW1 service and then being re-numbered in 1916, it makes sense that it is the right Medal Card now.  I have emailed the MoD to see if I should re-apply for his record.  I am really hopeful that they will still have it now I know he was still in the army in 1927.  Up until today I was sure it had been lost with the majority of the WW1 records.

Luzzu

[Stebie9173]

He would not have been renumbered during the war (unless he changed Regiments or Corps) as he was a Regular, not a Territorial. The 7 digit numbers were issued in early 1920.

If he was born in 1886 and he enlisted at the usual age of 19 or 20 he would have served from say 1906 to 1918 (a standard 12 year term of engagement) with the KRRC. He would have been on active service until about 1913 or 1914 (7 or 8 years) and thereafter on Reserve so should have been recalled from Reserve to the KRRC on 5th August 1914.

The only explanation for him serving in the Northamptons is that he either left the Army early (either discharged due to illness, or discharged by purchase) or transferred between Regiments whilst still serving.

No. 9839 is just pre-war (about Jan/Feb 1914) so he would have re-enlisted as a Regular.


No. 5875117 would have been the 117th number issued to the Northamptons in 1920, hence it is very likely that he stayed in the Army from (at least) 1914 through to 1927+. So, yes the MOD should still have his file.

Blackdown is a camp at Aldershot. Incidentally, the 1st Northamptons were based there prior to the war as well from 1912 to 1914.


By co-incidence the 1st Northamptons  served alonsgide the 2nd KRRC during the war as part of the 2nd Brigade of 1st Division.



I don't have my database with me here, but I will look him up later.


He also may not have served with the 1st Northamptons during the war (i.e. he may have served in a different battalion of the Northamptons), and may have transferred to them later.




Steve.

[Luzzu]

Thanks Steve,

I am really hopeful now that the MoD will still have his file.  I haven't received a reply yet to see if I should re-apply.

His son joined as a boy recruit and his father had to give permission for him to sit an examination in 1927 and that is how I know they were living in Married Quarters at Blackdown.  Presumably, they would not have been allowed to continue living in married quarters if he had already left the army.

Luzzu

[Stebie9173]

I would say that it was almost certain that he was still in the Army then, though he may have been getting to the end of his own service at that point.


It may be worth also getting in touch with Paul Robinson, the curator at the Northampton Museum, to see what photos and details they may have.


I believe they have the enlistment register for the 1920s plus photos of the battalion at various times, often with names. The fact that he was a bandsman earlier in his army life may well mean he was later on and that can only increase the likelihood of his name popping up at various points.



Steve.

[Luzzu]

Thanks Steve,

Will certainly follow that advice.  It would be wonderful if there was a photograph as he is the only one of my great grandparents  I don't have a picture of.

Luzzu

[corisande]

Which of his service numbers did you use when you applied.

The MOD are not the most helpful of organisations, and if you used only the 4 figure number they may just have rejected merely on those grounds.

[Luzzu]

Hi Corisande,

I didn't.  When I applied I only had his dob, marriage and death certificates.  I didn't know he was in the Northamptonshire regiment until this week when his son's WW2 record arrived so I didn't tie in with the MIC that jds1949 posted and I had no idea he was still in the Army in 1927.  The only reference to a regiment I had before then was from his marriage certificate, i.e., 2nd Kings Royal Rifles.  So I think? they just assumed he was in WW1 and referred me to the National Archives saying they only keep records for soldiers who left after Jan 1921 and officers who left after Mar 1922.

Luzzu