Helena Friese-Greene

[Romantic Spirit]

Your last link is very appreciated!

No-one said it was illegal to use another name, just that it was dishonest on a census. It is perfectly clear that they were romanticizing their position. If William had been more practical and less dreamy he would certainly have become wealthy instead of a long-time bankrupt.

Thank you.

[Valda]

Hi

Taken from

Chronological List of Photographers Working in the City of Bristol, U.K. (1852 - 1972)
Extracted from Annual Trade Directories

Josty & Co, D 1873 - Queen’s Road 1874 - last entry until 1879 - D Josty, 5 Perry Road, Last entry until 1882 - Merrywood, Southville 1883 - 62 Wine Street

Friese-Green, William [see T.G. Willaway] 1882 - Richmond Terrace, Clifton 1885 - 15 Royal Promenade 1886 - no advertising until 1881 - Richmond Terr, Queen's Road. 1896 - Green Friese, Simpson & Co, Queen's Road.

http://www.cartes.fsnet.co.uk/photo/plist1.htm


1881 census RG11 2452 folio 17
12 Milford Road Bedminster Somerset
Daniel Josty 46 Head Married Artist Switzerland
Anna Josty 30 Wife Married Switzerland
Waldemar Josty 9 Son Bristol
Arthur Josty 7 Son Bristol
Spencer Josty 6 Son Bristol
Ida Josty 4 Daughter Bristol
Clara Josty 3 Daughter Bristol
Rudolphe Josty 2 Son Bristol
William Josty Son Bristol

1871 census RG10 180 folio 25
21 Dorchester Place Marylebone Middlesex
Daniel Josty 36 Head Married Photographer Switzerland
Anna Josty 20 Wife Married Switzerland

Daniel's widow and children were living in Cardiff on the 1891 census. The Welsh census gives language spoken. Anna's was German.
The Daniel Josty connection would seem the most likely reason for why Helene Friese came to visit England and Bristol. As Jorose said Daniel and Helene could have been cousins or the connection might be through Daniel's wife Anna.


From the evidence of the censuses for the 'Friese-Greene family' apart from using a 'pet name' for his wife in 1891 (as already stated often done on C19th censuses) there seems no evidence that William was at any point 'dishonest' or factually inaccurate when completing a household schedule (the 1881 household schedule was likely completed by his father).

1881 census RG11 2488 folio 44
4 Beech Road Horfield Gloucestershire
James Green 64 Head Married Smith Bristol
William Green 25 Son Married Photographic Artist Bristol
E. Green 64 Wife Married Clutton Somerset

1891 census RG12 5 folio 11
9 Bristol Gardens Paddington
William E Green 35 Head Married Artist Bristol
Lena Green 37 Wife Married Switzerland
Ethel Green 14 Daughter Bath
Eda Friese 36 Sister-in-law Single Living on own means Switzerland
Clara Friese 34 Sister-in-law Single Living on own means Switzerland

1901 census RG13 1698 folio 43
10 Cliff Villas Millbrook Dovercourt Essex
William FrieseGreen 45 Head Married Inventor Scient Bristol Gloucester
Edith FrieseGreen 25 Wife Married Great Yarmouth Norfolk
Claude H FrieseGreen 2 Son London Middlesex
Kenneth W FrieseGreen 1 Son Dovercourt Essex
2 female servants


It was common place for photographers to think of themselves (in the new media of the C19th) as artists or photographic artists.
The term dreamer and incorrigible optimist are used in this article to describe William Friese-Greene's views of his abilities as an inventor, but he certainly did invent and patent what he invented.

http://www.screenonline.org.uk/people/id/508948/


Regards

Valda

[suzard]

You have discovered many interesting pieces of information.  Perhaps one should call you Valda The Magician!


From the information about nationality I would think it most likely they were well-off Germans who had lived in Switzerland. I have lived in other countries myself but my name tells my true nationality.

Most probably the children were born in Switzerland - but their father was German
Maybe mother was Swiss
You state your name tells your true nationality
But your name doesn't tell your place of birth -which -what is asked for on the census!!!


As for age differences on the census - not that much importance was attached to age - so sometimes the person giving the information guessed
One of my ancestors baptism record states "born Spring" baptised  the day the first stone of the chapel was laid"
People gve the names they were known by sometimes - tthey used middle names as forenames - Florrie usually turns out to be Florence -Nelly can be Sarah Ellen etc

Its a little unfair to hint at them being dishonest
I know on one official form my name is wrongly spellt - not my fault -someone pressing the wrongbutttons when making a list - but I am finding it very difficult to get it altered - so maybe future genertions will call me "dishonest"

The more research you do the more you will become aqcuainted with "spotting" misentries on the census
Suz

[Romantic Spirit]

On the one hand I am overwhelmed by the amount of time, effort and information so freely and kindly offered which I never expected. For this I am MOST appreciative! Nevertheless, I find it odd why you are trying to constantly make them saints. I have lived in Bristol and known about them first-hand for a very long time, not from intuitive guesses from records, and have carefully formed opinions which I stand by.

[suzard]

! Nevertheless, I find it odd why you are trying to constantly make them saints.

I don't think anyone is trying to make anyone a saint

We are just trying to give you help and tips for searching the census from the many years experience of "deciphering" the census  we have between us.

We are freely and happily giving our time to try to assist you - sorry you find some things "odd"

Bye

Suz

[JenB]

According to this website she was born in 1854 and died in 1895.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSob=c&GSlh=1&GRid=63895662&

Just for the record, this has now been altered to show a birthdate of 1851, presumably to tie up with the death record given by suzard in post #2.

[Valda]

Hi


For interest the civil registration has only two 'events' in either Gloucestershire or adjacent Somerset for the surname Friese. Helene's marriage in 1874

Marriages Mar 1874   Friese  Victoria Mariana H     Bristol  6a 10

and the death of a child for which there is no birth registration

Deaths Sep 1873  FRIESE  Thomas  3  Bedminster  5c 420

Bedminster was the civil registration district to the south of Bristol.


Regards

Valda

[Romantic Spirit]

Valda:  William Green and Helena Friese married at 11 am on the 24th March, 1874 at St. George's Church, Brandon Hill, Bristol.

As regards the child I should think this is unlikely to be anything to do with Helena. By all accounts she was respectable and Bedminster is a poor area. Helena and her family lived in the best area of Bristol: Clifton.

JenB:  Many years ago I knew the date of birth for Helena Friese but I could not remember it so as I knew she was a little older than William who was born on the 7th September, 1855  I made it temporarily 1854 at Find A Grave until I had better information. But this was found from another source on the Internet.

Unless someone knows the burial place for Helena Friese-Greene, I think it is time this was wound up. With the utmost sincerity I have been amazed at the interest and effort shown and ultimately the many new facts discovered for which I am most deeply grateful! I think Valda is undoubtably this website's Sherlock Holmes! ... Without the pipe of course.

[beckieeeee]

Hello,

My name is Rebecca. I am William Freise Greene's Great Great Great Granddaughter from his marriage to Helena. Ethel is my Grandad's Grandmother and talks of her often also she helped give information for the book by Ray Allister which is a biography of William and his work (A Close Up Of An Inventor). We are trying to find out information on the Family(The family tree). We have Helena's death certificate and other information. It would be good to exchange information and help out where we can.
Regards
Beckie.