James Brown- Labourer (not Godfather of Soul!)

[california dreamin]

Hi
I wonder whether I could inlist the help or at least get some ideas on how to proceed with the research of my ancestor James William Brown.  I am coming up empty handed at every avenue!

James William Brown was married to Mary Ann Leary. I do not have a year.  They lived in Rotherhithe and I am lead to believe had 14 children.  One was my great-grandmother Ann Brown born in Rotherhithe in 1874.  The only other named sibling I know she had was called Ellen (who did not marry).  I have a lot of information regarding Annie Brown's life but nothing on her parents.  I believe that they came from Co. Cork (but have no documented proof) and at the very least I think that Mary Ann may have been from Cork, but perhaps James was a local man.  My grandfather many years ago went to find Leary's in Cork (!) but I have not idea where he looked or what he found.  I think they were Catholic as my Grandfather was raised a Catholic. I can find NO census returns that look promising, no UK marriage etc.  I haven't tried seriously for death's as the results are so numerous. Burial grounds for those dying in Rotherhithe - where might they have been??

I have found a tree on Ancestry which looks promising (with a few anomalies) however I have yet to have a reply from the tree owner.  I just don't know how certain they are of their facts.  If so, then I'm out of luck. 

Any suggestions at all on how to proceed
Thanks

[rosie99]

Hi

This is a possible in 1881
 James BROWN   Head   Married  age 37   bn Lambeth, Surrey occ Bricklayers Labourer     
 Mary A. BROWN   Wife   age    38   bn Lambeth
 Emily BROWN   Daughter age     14   bn Lambeth
 Annie BROWN   Daughter age   8   bn Lambeth
 Henry BROWN   Son      age  2   bn Lambeth

 living at 4 Providence Place Wateriss St
  Census Place Camberwell, Surrey, England
  RG11   Piece 0672 /f 27   Page 45

but it is only a guess 

Who did Annie Brown marry and when. Where was she living at the time.  Do you have her on census at all if so could you please give details.

Rosie
 

[california dreamin]

Hi  -
Glad you saw that one too - I just really wasn't sure I was hoping to find something else to rule it in or out.  Haven't been able to find Annie either prior to her marriage (I know she was in domestic service from a young age, and I would assume  anywhere from age 12yrs & upwards she would have been away from her parents)

Annie married Harry Brown ( I know...just my bad luck!)
at St. Barnabas Church, Rotherhithe in 1898.  I have a copy of the marriage cert. 

Mini time line for Annie:

1898   Born At time of marriage 1 Chilton St ,Rotherhithe
1899    Lived at: 54 Rotherhithe New Road Rotherhithe
1901   Census 1901: 487 Cambridge Road, Bethnal Green
                 RG/13/294

1911   Census 1911:12 Heneage St.  Brick Lane,   Spitalfields

Fingers crossed some of this may help you.  Ta             

[softly softly]

hi,
A possible marriage. March q 1865 Pancras 1b 155 -William Brown/Mary Ann Leary.
Image shows William Brown (sweep) full age address New Inn Yard - father William Brown-dead
Mary Ann Leary - minor - father John Leary -labourer. Married 12th March 1865.

John

[california dreamin]

Hi
Thanks for your reply - not sure on that one.  Do you think James William Brown would be referred to as just "William Brown"? I will have a look for it anyway.  Thx.  Is Pancras in the same general area as Rotherhithe?

Also regarding the infomation from Rosie - is Lambeth in the general vicinty of Rotherhithe?

Do you know if there is a way to search for a street name in a census and not by using the family name?

Also,  I did find a possible London Baptism for a James William Brown b. 1847 - a son of James William Brown (a labourer & Ann   Abode: Mellick Pl., Bermondsey.  Sounds a good candidate, but how can I link this up to establish if this is my James William?

There is also this 1881 census (minus Annie) that looks hopeful RG11/1748   pg22  It for a James & Mary A Brown but is in Barking, Essex.  However all the children are born in Rotherhithe.  Its very frustrating

[softly softly]

they also appear in 1871 ref rg10 635 4 3. Both 1871/81 record birth place as Ireland,wonder if they may have married in Ireland?
John

[rosie99]

There is also this 1881 census (minus Annie) that looks hopeful RG11/1748   pg22  It for a James & Mary A Brown but is in Barking, Essex.  However all the children are born in Rotherhithe.  Its very frustrating

I'd spotted that one but they hadn't got 14 children      I wonder if the 14 children included those dying in infancy, if I remember there was quite a gap between the first two children.   

[california dreamin]

Yes there was quite a gap in that family - I wondered if the others were in service or as you say died in infancy.  The "Barking" Brown's are the ones that appear in a family tree, but I have had no reply from the person who posted the tree!  I was hoping she could either rule the family in or out

John:  Will check out the 1871 ref you have given.  Yes, I also wondered if they had married in Ireland or in a Catholic Church and not the local Anglican.

[california dreamin]

Hi again

Yes, other odd thing I can't find James & Mary Ann in the 1901 census.  I thought perhaps that their daughter Annie may have stayed living near them (or vice versa). I also thought they would stand out in a census as they would still have a fair few children with them!