Author Topic: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please  (Read 18662 times)

Offline mgr

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 25 January 11 15:31 GMT (UK) »
Hello Richarde
Thanks for your help. I will investigate the Jonathan name further. I think I need to look at the Wax Chandlers records more closely. The families you mention certainly fit in with the dates I have. It is just possible that my John was also a son of Jonathan Polle and Mary Newton. I have found at least three generations with the name Jonathan, not always spelt that way, all of whom were members of the Wax Chandlers, even though they were silk weavers.
Will keep searching, thanks
Mgr
Marriott, Pulley- London, Seymour - London/ Oxon Boullen, Godefroy- Normandy/Guernsey/ Carlisle
Hastings, Todrig, Ayton- London,  Perry- Harrow,
Emms - Liverpool/ Kingston upon Thames,
Thurlby - Leasinghan/London
Reynolds, Pembroke, Jones/Llandegfan,
 Gibbs, Mason, Tunbridge Wells/Brighton .

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 25 January 11 17:29 GMT (UK) »
Mgr

In case it helps these are the children of Jonathan Polle/Polet and Mary Newton baptised at Threadneedle Street.

Jacques 1686
Samuel 1688
Jonathan 1690
Joseph 1695
David 1697
Ann 1698
Jonathan 1700
Jesse 1703

Jonathan Polet himself was born  1663 in London. His parents married at the Threadneedle Church Jun 1650. His father Jean Polle, was indeed born in Canterbury, (probs circa 1620-30) and gives his father as Solomon Polet.

Daniel Polet/Pulley I cannot find a trace of his baptism in London, but he did leave a will in Bethnal Green 1759. He was a dyer, and had married into the Ham family, who were quite influential, being one third of the Ham, Bachelor and Perigal Silk Weaving firm, one of the most succesful firms in Spitalfields at that time.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 25 January 11 17:38 GMT (UK) »
Ah here we are Mgr, forgot the Canterbury Walloon baptisms are on IGI

Jean was baptised to Salomon there  10 July 1625. Salomon himself was baptised there 23 August 1601 to Nicolas Pollet. He had an elder  brother Jonathan baptised 24 September 1592. That seems to be the first appearance of the family in the baptism register so Nicolas Pollet would appear to be the original refugee to England. The latest baptism to the family there is 1702, so some family members did stay while others moved on to London, but cannot find any trace of a latter Jonathan or Daniel there unfortunately.

Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 25 January 11 17:42 GMT (UK) »
Scrub that. Found your guy. JEAN POLE born 23 MAR 1693  baptised 26 MAR 1693      Walloon Or Strangers Church, Canterbury, Kent, Parents: JONATAN POLE & MARIE WOUTON OR NAUTON
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London


Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 25 January 11 17:49 GMT (UK) »
That's the only baptism for that couple there, so I'm wondering if Wouton/Nauton should actually read Newton and this is the same couple from London? It was clearly badly written in the register hence the transcribers confusion.

There is a gap in the London baptisms at exactly right time. Maybe they were visiting his relatives in Canterbury when the child was born, as his father Jean as we have seen was born there, so Jonathan would have likely had aunts uncles and cousins there, even if he himself was born in London.

Since he seems to be your man, here is Jonathans marriage details. He did not actually marry in the French Church, but announced his intention to there:

Announced in the French Church of Threadneedle Street Nov.1 1685:

" Jonathan Polet native of London, son of Jean Polet and  Jaqueline De la Motthe, declares intention to marry Marie Newton, native of London, daughter of Alexander Newton and Sinah Jackson"



He was married 12 days on at his local Anglican parish church:

Married St Dunstan's Stepney 12 Nov 1685

"Jonathan Polle, of Bethnal Green, Weaver, and Mary Newton, of the same"




This is his baptism at Threadneedle Street French Huguenot, London 1663:

"Jonathan Polle, son of Jean Polle and Jacquelaine his wife, Godparents Jacques Souflee and  Mary Polle, of Canterbury. baptised Sep 27 1663"


And this is his parents marriage also at Threadneedle Street French Huguenot, London 1650:

"Jean Polet, son of Solomon, a native of Canterbury, and Jacquelline, the daughter of Pierre De La Motte, a native of London declared their intention to marry June 16, and thereafter married her 3 July 1650"



Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline mgr

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 25 January 11 18:30 GMT (UK) »
Richarde, I had found that baptism some time back but couldn't fit it in anywhere. I did not know about Mary Newton, it is quite likely she was the same person as Mary Wouton/Nauton. The gap between the birth of Samuel and Jonathan points to there having been a child born in between.
I have Daniel's Will, he was baptised 4th June 1721, St. Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney parents Daniel and Rachell.
Rachel Pulley when widowed married William Pierce 24th Dec. 1731, St. Botolph's Bishopsgate
Daniel Pullie married Jane Stein 28th July 1706, Stepney
Daniell Pulley buried 12th Sept. 1719 St. Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney
Daniel married Elizabeth Ham 3rd June 1744  St Dionis Backchurch. I am sure he fits in somewhere.
Some of this is from the Wagner pedigree of the family in the Huguenot Library

There appear to have been quite a large number of the family, I shall now start to try and bring them together and hope they match other info I have.
 The year of the birth of Jonathan Pollet and Mary Newton's firstborn makes sense if Jonathan had married as soon as he finished his apprenticeship, becoming free on 1685.

Do you think they were French Huguenots or Walloons?

Thank you so much for your help, it has been invaluable
Marriott, Pulley- London, Seymour - London/ Oxon Boullen, Godefroy- Normandy/Guernsey/ Carlisle
Hastings, Todrig, Ayton- London,  Perry- Harrow,
Emms - Liverpool/ Kingston upon Thames,
Thurlby - Leasinghan/London
Reynolds, Pembroke, Jones/Llandegfan,
 Gibbs, Mason, Tunbridge Wells/Brighton .

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 25 January 11 18:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi Mgr, have just added some details re the marriages baptisms etc to my previous post.

Personally I would think this is likely a Walloon family. You will hear some people talk about all French speaking refugees before a certain date being Walloons, and all those after a certain date being Huguenot, but this is nonesense.
There were Huguenots coming to London almost from the start of the reformation in France in the 1530's, before Walloons, and they continued to come, especially at times of distress in France the religious wars 1560-1600, the seige of La Rochelle in 1620's, then a gentle trickle started in the early years of Louis XIV's reign eventually becoming a flood in his later years. 

This of course overlaps with the time the Walloons were coming roughly 1550's-1680. So without having an absolute place of origin, it is impossible to state for certain, whether they were Walloon or French. But it is true that before around 1650, Walloons were  more numerous than Huguenots here, because the persecution they faced under the Spanish was more intense, I think the Inquisition was burning thousands at the stake there at one point, worst persecution anywhere in Europe. This alone would incline one to think your Pollets are Walloon.

Then there is also the evidence of Akiras family. They were certainly Walloons, coming from Tourcoing, which showed the surname had a presence in the Walloon lands.

It may even be possible Akira relatives are linked to yours, with your branch leaving their hometown in the 1580's/90's, and Akira's either remaining, or fleeing at same time, to more northern most towns in the Spanish Netherlands, such as Brussels, where the persecutions were less intense, before fleeing again to Leiden in 1633, when the persecutions began in these towns too, during the thirty years war (1618-1648). 

So to cut a long story short...the evidence points towards Walloons, but you'd need confirmations of their place of origin (may be found in the Canterbury Church admittance records?). Of course some would argue the difference is fairly academic, as they were both Francophone in language and both Calvinist in faith, which is why they so readily shared churches in England, and the divisions soon melted away once here in any case. Many Walloons today want to be part of France not Belgium, and since Louis XIV annexed some Walloon land, some indeed already are, including the Wallons of Tourcoing today. But historically the Walloon people and lands were never, up until then, subjects of the French Crown, but rather the German/Spanish Holy Roman Emperors.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 25 January 11 19:09 GMT (UK) »
Looking at it Mary Newtons parents were married 15 Aug 1661  at Enfield (her mother down as Sinah Jacks, rather than Jackson as the London French church has her). I think Mary was probably therefore from a native English family  rather than any French connection. This may be why the clerks at the French church had such trouble recording her name, they were not familiar as a rule with English surnames, and may not have even spoke much if any English even at that date. To be fair to them the English clerks had just as much trouble recording the French surnames in their London registers!
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 25 January 11 19:20 GMT (UK) »
http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=FyE_TeKBHsqqhAe44u3iCg&ct=book-thumbnail&id=6SVGAAAAYAAJ&dq=%22nicolas+pollet%22%2Bcanterbury&q=%22nicolas+pollet%22#search_anchor

Confirmation of the Walloon origin, Nicolas the original refugee to England 1580/90's, probable great-great grandfather of John 1693, remarried in Canterbury on Feb 8 1595/6, and was recorded as a native of "Tourquoin" i.e Tourcoing, the same Walloon town Akira's Pollets gave as their place of origin when they reached Leiden in 1633.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London