Access to registers ....

[Welsh Girl]

I am trying to find a DAVIES in Merthyr .... as I have no date of death, using the indexes is of no use to me at all.  I am however more than willing to spend my time ploughing through the registers.

However, I have been told that legally I am not entitled to do this - as it's against the law

I question this, as I was able to do this in Devon, and if this is a legal issue, it should apply across the board.

I suspect this is more of a time/staff/effort issue, but would be grateful if someone could clear this up please?

I have been advised that under the freedom of Information act, I am entitled to see these records, but before I start throwing legal banter aroound and possibly offendeing people (which I don't want to do) I thought I'd ask your opinions.

I am more than willing to do the research and then pay for the certificate ..... I should add

[bernard_lewis]

I suppose the best way forward is to  make a formal, written request.

That said Freedom of Information applies to non-personal data (e.g. can I see the air quality records for my town?); if you want personal data (names, addresses, basically anything that identifies an individual) its the Data Protection Act that applies.

Usually you can't ask to see another persons personal data, though this doesn't apply to dead persons. But - if you were to see, say, the death cert of someone who died in the last 40 years or so there is a chance that the informants might still be alive and the register would (I think) include their personal data (e.g. an address). So thats an issue...

Assuming you're looking way, way back the odds are that all concerned with the death registration will also be dead. So that might solve one problem.

Again, put in a formal written request, mention your Devon experience as a precedent and ask the registrar on what legal authority they are depending when/if they say 'no'. If its a proper, legal basis they should be able to quote it to you and even send you a photocopy of the relevant bit, if they're obliging.

If its just 'we don't have the room for researchers' that's a different issue and if you're left unhappy you can appeal to the Information Commissioner (just Google it) for a definitive ruling. Its a free process if a little slow. If you win don't expect a Xmas card off the Registrar!

Bernard

[Welsh Girl]

Thanks Bernard.

That's exactly what I don't want to happen - annoy the Registrar that is - they've been really helpful to me in the past.

When I queried the "it's against the law" comment, it was quickly followed by "we don't have the staff" .. which I understand, but I don't actually want them to do anything.

I see what you mean about the DPA, as the informant is very likely to still be alive - albeit in their very late 80's ..... However, I have the DC now which gives me the same information, so I can apply for ANY certificate from the GRO - whch would (or could) give me a living relatives address, but I can't look at the registers myself for the same reason ..   errrr ..

I only want to find HIS Deathentry.  I'll contact the burial Department tomorrow to see if they can shed some light on his burial, or even his Wife, now I have her exact date of death - and hopefully he's in there with her !!

Thanks again ........   this is why I don't like the programmes on TV - they make things look so easy !! GGgggrrrrrr

[RJ_Paton]

This was a reply by stanmapstone on a similar query - he is usually spot on with the legalities of searching

Local Register Offices are required by law to hold indexes to their registers. You can carry out a General Search of the indexes yourself at the office. The fee for a General Search is £18.00. The indexes, but not the actual registers can be searched for up to six consecutive hours within the opening hours of the Office. You usually must make an appointment.

Stan

[bernard_lewis]

Helpful post, Falkryn. £18 is a bit pricey though 

Welsh Girl - if you have the wifes date of death then - assuming you have the right cemetery and hubby is in there with her - the the cems staff should be able to easily turn up the detail. Both names should be in the grave record, even if they died years apart.

Bernard

[Guy Etchells]

This was a reply by stanmapstone on a similar query - he is usually spot on with the legalities of searching

Local Register Offices are required by law to hold indexes to their registers. You can carry out a General Search of the indexes yourself at the office. The fee for a General Search is £18.00. The indexes, but not the actual registers can be searched for up to six consecutive hours within the opening hours of the Office. You usually must make an appointment.

Stan

Unfortunately the advice is wrong on this occasion, perhaps it has been taken out of context.

There seems to be confusion between a local Registrar and the Superintendent Registrar.

A local Registrar holds the current civil registers of Births, Marriages and Deaths and these as they are not indexed they may be searched in person by any member of the public free of charge at any time the office is open for business.
When a register is filled it is forwarded to the Superintendent Registrar

The Superintendent Registrar hold transcripts of births, marriages and deaths and also the filled registers of births, marriages and deaths that have been forwarded to him/her by the Registrars.
The Superintendent Registrar has the responsibility of making an index of these records.
Only the index of registers in the keeping of the Superintendent Registrar may be searched not the registers themselves.

In various districts of the country the Registrar and the Superintendent Registrar may share the same building, however that does not alter the fact that registers in the keeping of a Registrar may be search by members of the public in person.
Cheers
Guy

PS the Freedom of Information Act will not help at all as the information is available already by purchasing the appropriate certificate.

[Welsh Girl]

now I am confused .. the information is brilliant, but could you clarify then please ...

If I have the name of William Davies - but no date of death - can I search the registers myself for the enrtry?  The indexes are no good as I dont know when he died.

I know his Wife died in 1977, but I don't know where she is buried, so can't find the burial.  They lived in Pentrebach (Merthyr), but she died in East Glam Hospital, and was in a Residential home in Treorchy for 2 years prior to that.

HELP!!

[bernard_lewis]

Guy - great if what you say is correct. Easier for all of us. But can you point us to an 'authority' that backs up what you say? We're obviously being given differing advice by Registrars so a definitive source would be useful to wave around.

Bernard

[andycand]

Hi Bernard

The link below is to the relevant Act

Just to add to Guys comments. Only current Registers still held by a Registrar are accessable but these would only cover registrations in the last few weeks or months. Registers that are filled are passed to the Superintendant Registrar and these registers are not available for the public to search, only the indexes. If Devon allowed someone to search their actual Registers then that is a rarity. You would be struggling to find many or even any other Register Office that allows the public to search actual registers held by the Superintendant Registrar.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/1953Act.htm

Andy