Looking for Barker Joseph BENSON, born Whitby 1815?

[carna]

Hi, blynch and Barkrelsatthepoint,

Sorry for the long time between posts.

I can't believe we are talking about rels who would have been part of the 'colony' of NSW.
To me it was always History, but now it's kind of part of me.

I appreciate all you have shared with me and wish I had more to share.
I can help with most of the rels from Willis Allatson down to the latest generations in some cases, if you want to go that far.

Do either of you know how Barker Joseph and Hannah went from NZ to Australia?

Thanks again,
Carna

[Barkrelsatthepoint]

Hi Carna,

Good to hear from you. It's Angela here. We too are blown away by all this. Re your info on Willis, the dates of births deaths of him, his wife and children and the family down to today would be awesome as we could fill it in on the tree. Did he go anywhere in the world like the rest of the boys? I know he ended up in America there for a while when WJC  Benson his brother died looking after his business with his brother Thomas? Otherwise to us at this stage he is just a name.

You will be interested in the help I've received from Whitby Museum. I requested the wills of Thomas Willis and Ann Willis (Benson) (Robson). It is Thomas Willis' will that is most interesting. He is not very pleased with his own son, and leaves him an annuity, (has rings of what Thomas Benson -Barker's father did to him). But it does mention the massive estate the children received both his and Ann's - William Benson and Thomas Benson only as Dorothy had died. Ruswarp, Fylingdales and other properties in Whitby (not named) as well as the ship Dorothy plus other shipping, are all included in the estate - boy were they wealthy!!!!!!  It also links us to step relatives - Sanders and Gowlands.

How awesome is that! Have to admit I'm really still very interested in the top of the tree at the moment and I'm trying to sort out why Thomas (Sarah) moved down to London. Also I would love the top of the tree before 1690. The question there is 'Do we go back to Thomas of Branga Woods 1490?"

Chat again soon.

Angela

[Barkrelsatthepoint]

Hi Carna and other 'cousins',

Have been researching but haven't come across anything new other than a Gen forum post by Tiffany back in 1998 would you believe who has written out the whole tree that I've got and is also a relative via - (complicated) -

Thomas (And Sarah)' brother William's son William who goes to America which makes her a cousin a few times removed. Haven't tried to contact as its an old post and no one replied who was on our wavelength. Just put in Benson genealogy - loads of 'rels' in America so to speak!   

Also I think someone mentioned here already the Trove page on Barker (I hadn't come across it until now : Here's the address:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=joseph+barker+benson 

Contacted Oxford Uni re Benson papers but they weren't of much use.

Still can't get further back than William and Jane and his father about 1630.

Trying to make the links between Robert of Bingley, Christopher of Pately Bridge and a William (and/or Thomas) of ours.

We're from an industrious and illustrious line and yet no one seems to have put any info out there. Shame really.

Hope all our Benson cousins are well.

Cheers barkrelsat thepoint   

[carna]

Hi Angela,

Sorry for the lack of posts.
Thanks to Blynch, I now have pics of Barker Joseph and Hannah Emily. (I think they are photos of portraits.)
They were sent in an email in a word document and so far I have been unable to save them as anything else so that I can print them off at Big W.  But will keep trying and then pass them on.

Thanks for the Trove links. I have been on Trove before but there were heaps I hadn't seen. Maybe they are newly tranferred.

It is so annoying that the family doesn't seem to change the middle name when they name a child the same as a parent or other family member, e.g. Willis Allatson x3, Barker Joseph, x 2 ( ours and his grandson through James Joseph, who died at 23yrs).

My grandfather recalls his dad mentioning that his grandfather (our Barker Joseph) just put a sign up out the front saying that he was a doctor.

Has anyone found evidence of Barker becoming a doctor?

The Trove entries mention him a few times as a surgeon and he also gave reports on suspicious deaths. Surely he had qualifications !

Thanks also for the info on the wealth of the previous Bensons. Mum (Dorothy) was chuffed that there was a ship in the family, also called Dorothy.

I will get that info together on Willis down to us, so that I can pass it on to you.

Thanks again for all the info that you are sharing with us,
Much appreciated,
Karen

P.S. If you have any cracked or damaged photos that you want help fixing, the people on the 'Photograph Restoration and Dating' board on RootsChat, do an absolutely fantastic job.

[Barkrelsatthepoint]

Hi Karen, (interesting that's our daughter's name)

Nice to see this post. I've been gathering all the notices I've got from the London Gazette on Thomas (and Sarah). I've written up the previous generations and come to the conclusion they had much to put up with regarding children dying at early ages, like James Joseph 23 there's Ann Dorothy 11months, Robson 6, Dorothy 19 etc.

I viewed over 90 entries for Thomas when I was trawling the London Gazette site - he's the one who must have inspired William Robson to be so socially aware! Barker's grandmother Ann didn't have it easy either with rearing her four kids and three of Thomas Willis' in her second marriage. She lived to a good age though.

It would be anecdotal to say that the Barker misdemeanour with apples seems like a Uni prank. I have a notice from the NZ Gazette where he and the ship's surgeon and another fellow thank the Ships Crew for their 'Good Work' in getting them to NZ. Maybe you get to be a doctor by association?! I have commented before that the fellow who signs off on his death notice gives the impression that he is 'letting go'  of a colleague.

It's mystified me where he got his credentials except that where they lived in Bloomsbury (Camden) is right next to the one of the old British teaching hospitals. Maybe he got his credentials there?  I've searched the hospital websites for some evidence also the Uni results for Barker's years when he might have been at 'Uni'. Maybe they didn't get those sort of credentials in those days? I think he might have been 'learning' the trade when they were still digging up or paying for bodies to 'learn from'! We lose track of how 'primitive' in many ways it still was back two hundred years ago.

Will be more into Barker's life when I finish the first five generations from William 1657, which is essentially the 'Whitby story'.

We can't understand why he came out and set up first in a timber business and then turned to being a doctor other than, that was what his brothers were all involved in as in WJC Benson in New Liverpool Quebec and Willis and him in London, then Thomas went to help out when WJC died.

It's a dilemma I guess that may not have an answer. 

We're pretty lucky that we've got so much info really - the research we've already done on the Godwin line (that's another story!) draws a blank after 1790 which is not far back at all.

Anyhow have every intention of searching 'high and low' until I get bored with it, which isn't in the near future. So will look forward to more posts even if they're just mentoring ones. 

Love this service that Root's chat has provided.

Cheers for now Angela at barkrelsatthepoint.   

[carna]

Dear Angela,

I can't believe you get so much information.

I have posted a question on the Australian board on RootsChat asking if anyone knows where Barker got his qualifications.

Have a look as some I had read before, but others were new to me. (understandable due to me being a newby to family history). You have possibly seen it as you sound like you have been at it longer.

One post lists Barker as MD M.R.C.S.L. (Member of the Royal College of Surgeons London?)
I also find surgeons listed as 'Sawbones' interesting and possibly relating to your reference to practising on bodies?

Do you know how Barker and Hannah arrived in Australia? 

Speak soon,
Karen
 

[Barkrelsatthepoint]

Hi Karen,

We seem to have stirred up a 'hornet's nest' so to speak. I'm wondering if all this chat sometimes gets things more complicated than it really is. Do people know that Barker's first cousin Alfred Robson Benson who had Mt Benson named after him in British Columbia was also a doctor and some people seemed to feel he was a 'quack'. Think that was more about personality than qualifications though.

I need to look up Alfred Robson's dates as it is possible he and Barker are of a similar time frame - maybe there's more info on him and where he got his qualifications especially as he became more famous so to speak - didn't feel any need to go down this line before now. Alfred Robson worked with the Indians and was greatly loved. As a relative I wonder if that is how people felt about Barker and maybe qualifications weren't so important in those days as they are held now?

Cheers - too much discussion today on the other thread to absorb it all.

 



   

[blynch2]

Hi Angela and Karen !
 I have enjoyed reading your postings, but haven't had much to contribute.
 I have often wondered about Barker's qualifications as a doctor. Many years ago I contacted the Royal College of Surgeons in London about Barker and another rellie, John Yates Rutter, also a doctor. They confirmed that John Yates Rutter was registered with them, but there was no record of Barker Benson. I get the feeling that he wasn't a doctor when he travelled to New Zealand, as he was listed on the passenger list as 'Mr'. Usually if they were a doctor, they were listed as 'Dr'. He was quite well educated, so I wonder if he did just hang up a sign and declare himself to be a doctor. Maybe this was acceptable back then!
  Earlier, he had worked in a law firm, but was very unhappy doing this. He then travelled to Quebec and later India (he definitely wasn't a doctor at this stage). He seemed to have the job of supervising the unloading and loading of the cargo etc. I had the feeling that this is what he was doing when he travelled to New Zealand, but am not sure.
   It is quite intriguing, isn't it!
   I am trying to work out how to post the photos on this site. Will work on it this weekend.
   Regards,
                 Kim.

[Barkrelsatthepoint]

Hi Kim

I guess I'm not surprised by what you've written. I presume you're saying he went to these places before he came to NZ and OZ? Thanks for the info on John Yates Rutter, I presume he was Ida's father?

It's not surprising he went to Quebec to see his brother William John Chapman Benson and his brother in India - Madras General Robson who I think was only a Lieut. Colonel in those days - well he was when he married Maria Balcarras over there. Do you know their daughter's marriage to John chapman bought the two lines of the family back together (from Dorothy) and then her daughter Sarah Melanie linked the Walker (Whitby fame) back together too? Also do you know of cousin James Coultas (Cowltas) in the St Laurence?

I confess that I'm fairly au fait with the English side of things because I did a heck of a lot of pre-research so we would go to all the right places while we were over there when we went over last year. (Young grandchildren prefer photographs and they're loving the overall shipping history) I've even recently found a lovely quote on a history page saying how much the Benson's of the 'Egton'; area among other many other names that carry down with them through history were the backbone of the coal, shipping and ship-building industry.  It's plastered all over the net so to speak and the Whitby museum helped us heaps.

My issue rather than the qualifications ones is what happened to all the other of William Robson children? I know Thomas Barker Chapman the eldest managed Brenda Station for 25 years, Edward got bankrupt and was waiting on his Aunt Dorothy's inheritance payment to get him out of trouble.  Eric (our rellie) got in to trouble but there's a plausible explanation for that. Willis' history is covered by Karen (Carna) is there anything on the others?

Likewise - of course I've got a little bit of stuff on Eric and Pauline and I'm fairly confident that Ida's sister Charlotte married Henry Kendal the poet - is this your understanding too?

On a sad note we have only one photo of Pauline and her other four sisters and 'Billy Benson' my father-in-law did not know which of the five girls in the picture is his Mum - hence neither do we. Billy was brought up by the girl's  brother Ambrose. The Depression and the War caused a lot of tragedy on the home front as well as overseas!!!!

It's good to know in some ways that more money spent trying to contact the College of Surgeons wouldn't be worth it. 

I've nearly written up the first five generations - Whitby- London and was going to get started about now on Barker down. I wish I thought the Australian picture was going to be as 'romantic' as the English one but somehow I don't think it will be. Looking for inspiration I guess at this point in time.

Would love to have the pictures - do you have William Robson too.  I guess if they won't upload you could email them to me but I'm not putting my email address here as I just took it off the Yorkshire Dalesman site because we were getting too much SPAM.(Ugh!!!)

Look forward to seeing them.

Cheers and thanks again for the inspiration barkrels (Angela)