Lloyd family Llanbedr

[JustLooking]

In 1861, Simon is in Toxteth in the household of an Edward Williams

7, 32 Court, Mann Street, Toxteth Park
RG9/2705/57/45

Simon Lloyd, boarder, unm, 25, dock porter, b. Llanbedr


1871

? Terrace, Stanley Crescent, Kirkdale
RG10/3829/46/34

Simon Lloyd, lodger, unm,  34, fireman on steamer b. Ruthin

1881

West Derby Workhouse, Rice St, Walton on the Hill
RG11/3694/33/7

Simon Lloyd, inmate, unm, 45,  farm labourer, b. Ruthin, N Wales

1891

With brother Thomas :

35 Stanoughts Cottages, Gordon Terrace, Garston
RG12/3005/135/9

Thomas Lloyd, widower, 63, coachman, b. Llanbedr, Wales
Simon, brother, unm, 55, labourer, b. -do-
robert S, son, 19, postman, b. Bagworth
Thomas, s, 16, gardener, b.Aigburth
David, son, 12, b. -do-
George Pemberton, visitor, unm, 30, labourer - general, b. Chester


So it does look as if the Lewis and Sarah Lloyd that I posted in the last message were Thomas and Simon's parents.

JL

[Deryn]

You people are BRILLIANT !

I do have access to some of the census info on the net but even then I can't make sense of most of it !

My quest ?  Only a couple of days ago I decided to make an effort to trace the Welsh part of my family I knew was there through my mums side, Lloyd. I now live in Wales and have always felt very much a part of it, especially here in North Wales.

So finding Thomas, my gr gr grandfather in Llanbedr was great. Quite a way from where I live, but great news.

NOW, my gr gr grandmother was born in Llanfachreth, and that is only 36 miles down the road ! How great is that.

I am out today but tonight I shall sit down with all the info and no doubt decide when I am going down to Llanfachreth.

Again, MASSIVE thanks.

Will I stop now ? mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Deryn

[Rol]

Hi Deryn,


An interesting thread.  Just thought that I would post a cross reference to the Merionethshire one (entitled Llanfachreth Church) that you started on 26 February to pursue the family of Thomas Lloyd's wife Jane Roberts.  Some will have spotted it long since,  but having a hypertext link available here should ensure that present and future readers also have easy access to the related info there.

In particular,  readers of this thread will probably wish to be aware of the family tree mentioned on Monday by David ("Dcbnwh"),  in his Llanfachreth Reply 20:

I see that a lot has transpired since I was last on line but I have found a tree on Ancestry.co.uk which has the full family.

David and Jane Roberts had 12 children including Jane in 1834. It includes her marriage to Thomas Lloyd and her death in Toxteth Park.

The tree also includes the families of two of her siblings, Catherine and Laura. ...

At the time of writing,  that source shows Thomas Lloyd as son of an Edward Lloyd.  However,  the connection looks tenuous -- something which the tree owner (site-name: tinjo55) almost explicitly recognises by citing two mutually exclusive 1851 census entries on Thomas's page.  One identifies him with the Thomas Lloyd,  son,  22,  land surveyor,  b. "Denbighshire",  who was present in the household of Edward Lloyd,  41 [though transcribed as 47],  sawyer,  of Napier Street,  Everton (HO107/2190 fo.177v p.17).  And the other,  whose implications for the relevance of the first seem to have been disregarded,  shows him as the ag lab we already know,  living at Llanbedr as per the census entry found by Madri (Reply 7 above -- HO107/2504 fo.125r p.8.)

I think that the "son of Edward Lloyd" theory can safely be dismissed,  because the Everton father and son turn up there again in 1861,  both living at 38 Eastbourne Street -- and by then Edward,  52,  had become a master builder and Thomas,  33,  an architect as well as a surveyor (plus a widower).  Both were shown simply as born "North Wales".  For the full entry,  see RG9/2713 fo.55v p.20.

Accordingly,  I too favour the well reasoned conclusions reached by JL (Replies 8 and 9) -- making Thomas Lloyd the son of a Lewis Lloyd,  born Cerrigydrudion ca. 1795.  But,  predictably in our field of research,  that leads straight on to a fresh obstacle.  A couple of days ago I had a short time available at a library with some CFHS PR transcripts,  and took the opportunity to look for the baptism of a Lewis Lloyd in Cerrigydrudion PR,  ca. 1795.  Not only was there no such entry in or near 1795;  there were none 1783-1804 . . . apart from this one,  which looks hopeless unless the age of Thomas's father in 1851 was understated by a good decade:

1783  BAPT  Lewis s. Cadwalader Lloyd & Eliz.,  Hafod y maidd mill,  10 February

(Have not tried seeing whether this fellow died young,  had a quite separate career,  etc.,  to double-confirm his irrelevance.)

Nor does there seem to be anything obvious in the www.BMDregisters.co.uk index to the R-G's nonconformist registers.  But we all like new challenges -- don't we?


Rol

[Deryn]

Hi Rol,  nice bit of detective work.

Am I to assume that Thomas Lloyd b1829 was fathered by Lewis Lloyd 1795 ? And from what we have about his wife her name was Sarah, surname unknown, born in Gyffylliog 1803 ?

many thanks,

Deryn

[Rol]

Am I to assume that Thomas Lloyd b1829 was fathered by Lewis Lloyd 1795 ? And from what we have about his wife her name was Sarah, surname unknown, born in Gyffylliog 1803 ?

Well,  that is how it looks -- though perhaps not cast-iron certain yet.

I notice that Lewis Lloyd survived to a good age,  and by the 1871 census he was a widower living alone in one of the alms houses at Llanrhydd.  That year he stuck with Cerrigydrudion as his place of birth,  but gave his age as 78 -- which of course in theory moves his DoB a bit earlier (to the range 3 April 1792 to 2 April 1793).

Per FreeBMD,  it looks as though he died in Q1 1875 (Ruthin 11b 291),  at which time his age was stated to be 83,  carrying his implied DoB back to the period Q1 1791 - Q1 1792.  N Wales BMD shows the equivalent local registrar's ref. as RTHN/09/8.

None of which really puts him within striking distance of the 1783 baptism of the Cerrig miller's son . . .


Rol

[Rol]

The IGI indexes a plausible wedding for Lewis Lloyd at Llanbedr DC church on 28 April 1827.  Bride's maiden name:  Sarah Lloyd.  (Source cited is transcription of the LDS's microfilm of Llanbedr DC BTs for the period 1813-60.)

The BTs also show their children's baptismal dates as follows:

          Sarah -- 11 Apr 1828

          Thomas -- 22 Feb 1829

          Margaret -- 16 May 1830

          Ellen -- 13 Dec 1831

          Elizabeth -- 14 Dec 1834

          Simon -- 8 May 1836

          John -- 8 Mar 1838

(c.f. the 1841 census entry as transcribed in JL's Reply 8 above.)


Rol

[Deryn]

Hi Rol,

interesting to see that Lewis' wife Jane's maiden name could be Lloyd ! That might explain why so far I havn't been able to find a surname for her.

An ever increasing story,

thanks again,

deryn

[sarah]

Hello we received the following message from Diane, we were unable to respond because she did not have an email address for us to reply to. 

Regards

Sarah

One of your members did a long piece on the above with the inclusion of Thomas Lloyd school master of Abergele, wondering if this lady is still interested in details of same as it was during Covid days piece was placed.
I have much info on the Lloyd family - being a member of same family myself!
Please help, however cannot receive emails as no email address at present