Silas Edward MARTYN born abt 1818 St. Columb Cornwall

[krisesjoint]

Hi Barbara,

So glad you have joined our happy little bunch. Sorry for my delay I have been flat out the last few days and am only just catching up. I am not at home at the mo but have my microfiche with me - Just went to go down to the library to double check before I post. 

Silas Edward MARTYN was baptised 21 Apr 1817 at St Columb Major parents Thomas and Sarah father Surgeon of St Columb Town.

Hi again Denis. I have split this post from the other so we can try to clarify this. I feel I may tend to disagree with a little of this. At this stage I have no idea who Ann (you have listed as 9th child) may be, and I have a bit of a problem with the order of some of this. (through may just be the way it is printed.)

Cheers Kris 

[BarbaraCM]

Thank you, Kris, for the Baptism date - still can't find it though.   Also, thank you Denis for the younger two children of Silas Edward and Mary.  I hadn't found them.

Also, William H Liddell was Emily Constance's godfather. She was baptized 21 Sept 1861 at All Saints Knightsbridge.

Kris - we had posts at another thread on this Silas Edward.

Barbara

[krisesjoint]

Hi Barbara,

I do not understand what you mean by you still can't find it.  You will not likely find it unless you have access to the St Columb Major Parish Records. I am providing these lookups from microfiche. You will not find it online.

Cheers Kris   

[BarbaraCM]

Hi Kris,

Thank you so much for checking the microfilms for me.  After you gave the date, I had also hoped to find it on the Cornwall Online Parish records or through Find My Past.  All of the others ones  I have looked for seem to be available.

Thank you again, I have been looking for it for about 18 months, and not finding it has been confusing me  with so many other Martyns.

Barbara

[krisesjoint]

You are welcome Barbara.

With regards to your own branch I would like to know if anybody has verified that possible last child posted by Denis. I see you have used a question mark Denis so take it you are unsure. I would say they had at least 8 children. Ernest was born in Kensington so yes he may be Silas's but without a birth cert or baptism record I would not be inclined to commit him. Unfortunately he did not appear  in any census. Thomas Allin did not appear in any census either but I have seen his baptism therefore can confirm he is Silas's son. We know the family were in Kensington when Thomas Allin died Sep 1/4 1868 and were in Hampshire when Mary Matilda died Dec 1/4 1870 so may have still been in Kensington to have had Ernest. You have a death about Nov 1869 Denis. Where was that?

There are other persons listed in this I would not agree with. There are errors in this tree. Firstly Children of Dr Thomas MARTYN and Sarah DARKE I have 10 but there is no Ann I can find. It is impossible for her to be child 9 as we have Silas baptised in 1817 and Maria in 1818. As far as I am concerned there is no Ann. Children of Thomas and Mary Frances GLUBB who is John? I have the baptisms for 6 children - no John. Children of Maria and Thomas TRELOAR I see no Thomas - I have the baptisms for 3 children not 4. I would like to see someone has verified these people before committing them to their own trees. I am not saying they did not exist - maybe they did, but I would not add them without proof. Their appearance in other peoples trees is not proof.

BTW Denis you are very fortunate to have the diary - such a wonderful piece of history in you family.

Cheers Kris 

[krisesjoint]

Hi Barbara and Denis. As mentioned my slant on this family is not quite in agreeance with Denis' post. There appear to be people listed in Denis's post I can find no records for.  

Thomas MARTYN bap 16 Apr 1874 St Col Minor to John MARTYN and Gertrude HISCUTT  buried 11 Jun 1826 St Columb Major aged 52 of the Town of St Columb.
= 17 Nov 1801 Hatherleigh Devon
Sarah DARKE bap 11 Feb 1778 Hatherleigh to Thomas DARKE and Elizabeth DREW buried 22 Sep 1852 St Columb Major aged 74 of Bank Street.

Children

1. Gertrude Kinuell 16 Aug 1802 Hatherleigh - no issue
2. Elizabeth Drew 21 Sep 1803 Hatherleigh - no issue
3. Mary Darke Drew 30 Aug 1805 Hatherleigh - no issue
4. Sarah born 1806 Hatherleigh but baptsised as Sally 18 Nov 1806 St Col Major - No Issue
5. Mary Agnes 5 Oct 1807 St Columb Major - No Issue
6. Dr Thomas Darke bap 11 Jul 1811 St Columb Major = Mary Frances GLUBB 25 Oct 1838 Liskeard - at least 6 Children
7. Rev John 9 Nov 1814 St Col Major = Margaret Alver HARVEY Jun 1/4 1856 Sturminster Dorset - at least 5 Children
8. Dr William 30 Sep 1815 St Col Major = Elizabeth Bowen PRIDHAM Mar 1/4 1854 Bath - at least 6 children
9. Silas Edward bap 21 Apr 1817 St Columb Major = Mary Matilda ALLIN 7 May 1850 Clapham Parish Church - at least 8 children
10. Maria Darke bap 30 Mar 1818 St Columb Major = Thomas TRELOAR 17 Sep 1845 St Enoder - at least 3 children

Cheers Kris  

[BarbaraCM]

Hi Kris,

Thank you for helping with these details.  No, I haven't verifed that last child of Silas Edward and Mary Matilda.  There is a death of an Ernest William Martyn in St. Austell Cornwall reported Oct - Dec 1869, of a child not yet a year old.  It is possibly the same. 

I agree with your advice about not taking info from others trees.  I usually use it as a starting point and then work through the family members verifying what may be given.

Just not enough hours in the day.  Thanks again, Kris.   Barbara

[dmollison]

Dear Kris / Barbara

Apologies if I've been repeating too much uncertain - even erroneous - info.

I did preface the post of Silas's relatives by saying it was "an extract from Marianne's info for 1817 Silas E's immediate family, with some notes and corrections".
As I think I've already mentioned, Marianne's info here seems heavily based on the Martyn Tree; I knew there were a few transcription errors, but from your examples it looks as though the Tree itself is wrong in places.  I'm surprised it is here, because the signature on the Tree is I think SE Martyn - more likely to be the uncle (1779) than Silas E (1817), but either way you'd have expected them to get such close relatives right.

On your specific points:
Yes, the ? against Ernest b Kensington 1868, d St Austell 1969 was meant to indicate only a possibility.

"Children of Dr Thomas MARTYN and Sarah DARKE: I have 10 but there is no Ann I can find."
Yes, the Tree seems to be wrong here, unless possibly Ann is Mary Agnes, as distinct from the Mary who died infant.

"Children of Thomas and Mary Frances GLUBB who is John? I have the baptisms for 6 children - no John. "
I agree, I can't find a plausible John in censuses or BMD.  Who is your 6th?  I only have 5:
Births Mar 1841  Martyn    Mary Frances    St Columb    9 67
- d Mar1843 St Columb
Births Mar 1844  Martyn    Frances    St Columb    9 72
- d Sep1910 St Columb
Births Sep 1845  Martyn    Janet        St Columb    9 54
- d Jun1865 St Columb
Births Sep 1849  Martyn    Sydney Glubb    St Columb    9 55
- d Dec1876 Ongar, aged 27
Births Sep 1852  Martyn    Emily Lyne    St Columb    5c 109
- d Jun1934 St Columb, aged 81
(all of these are in at least one census with a parent)
Sad none seem to have had children.

"Children of Maria and Thomas TRELOAR I see no Thomas - I have the baptisms for 3 children not 4. "
Yes, I can't see any evidence for Thomas, but there is a Henry Martyn Treloar (1849-74) not in the Tree.
The 4 rather than 3 is Marianne misreading "Charles Edward" as two people.

I find it frustrating that there isn't yet a simple (wikipedi type) facility for correcting online trees.  Marianne did a great job putting the Martyn Tree in the public domain, but it would be nice if could be revised and added to.

All good wishes - Denis

[krisesjoint]

Hi Denis,

The sixth child of Dr Thomas was Sydney Thomas who was born in 1842 and only lived 7 months. 6 children but No descendants of Dr Thomas I am afraid.

MARTYN Mary Frances Born Mar 1/4 1841 St Columb 9 67 - Bap 19 Feb 1841 St Columb Major father Surgeon Of St Columb
- Mar 1/4 1843 St Columb buried 18 Mar 1843 aged 2 Years Of Market Street St Columb
MARTYN Sydney Thomas Born Sep 1/4 1842  St Columb 9 60 - bap 25 Jun 1842 Father Surgeon Of Market Street
- Mar 1/4 1843 St Columb buried 17 Feb 1843 St Columb Major aged 7 Months Of Market Square St Columb
MARTYN Frances born 10 Feb 1844 St Columb 9 72 - bap 18 Mar 1844 St Col Major Father Surgeon  Of St Columb Town
- Sep 1/4 1910 St Columb buried 27 Aug 1910 St Columb Major Aged 66 Years Of Ashleigh St Col
MARTYN Janet born Sep 1/4 1845 St Columb 9 54 - bap 17 Aug 1845 St Col Major Father Surgeon  Of Bank Square
- Jun 1/4 1865 St Columb buried 15 Jun 1865 St Columb Major Aged 20 Years Of St Columb
MARTYN Sydney Glubb Sep 1/4 1849 St Columb 9 55 - bap 24 Aug 1849 St Col Major Father Surgeon  Of Market Street
- Dec 1/4 1876 Ongar 4a 80, aged 27
MARTYN Emily Lyne born Sep 1/4 1852 St Columb - bap 24 Aug 1852 St Columb Major Father Surgeon Of St Columb
- Jun 1/4 1934 St Columb, aged 81 buried 1 Jun 1934 St Columb Major aged 81 of Ashleigh St Columb

The three baptisms I have for Maria and Thomas TRELOAR are

Charles Edward 25 Mar 1847 Kenwyn
Henry Martyn 28 Jan 1849 Kenwyn
Maria Louisa 1 May 1851 Kenwyn

Cheers Kris