Author Topic: Cassels and Possible link to Kennedys  (Read 5082 times)

Offline Sunnyhill

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Re: Cassels and Possible link to Kennedys
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 19 December 23 11:45 GMT (UK) »
Not sure if this is the one I was thinking of but Alexander Cassells b abt 1861 Dundee, father John, m Martha Blair 13 May 1889 St Annes C of Ire., Belfast.  17% shared DNA so not too close

Also match with someone whose ancestor is James Orr Kennedy b abt 1863 Co Down, father John Orr Kennedy, m Elizabeth Frame 1893 Comber Co. Down. They have common matches with myself and other Cassells matches
Co. Armagh: Castles/Cassells, Turkington, McBride, Hanna, Boston, Abraham, Geddis, Gilkinson, Humphries, McCormick, Corner, Serplus
Co. Antrim: Cassells, Hayes, Campbell, Saulters, Abernethy, Crooks, Fryer, Stead, Cooper, Gardner, Montgomery, Hill, McCartney, McKeown, Sterrit, McIntyre, Orr
Co. Down: Hayes, Campbell, Nelson, Skelly, Pickering, Dixon, Taylor, Lowry, Gourley, Stewart
Co. Mayo: Layng, Fulton, Ruxton
Co. Kerry: Nash
Co. Dublin: Ruxton, Layng, Kelly, Wilson, Shea, Askin
Galway: Abbot

Offline Sunnyhill

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Re: Cassels and Possible link to Kennedys
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 19 December 23 12:04 GMT (UK) »
This was the one actually

Robert Cassells
1842–

Birth ABT 1842 • Kilmarnock, Ayrshire

Spouse and children

    Mary Ann Holburn

    1834–1897

    John Cassells b 1871 Stewarton, Ayrshire, Scotland m Euphemia Hall abt 1896??

    Mary Ann Wyllie Cassells

    1872–1957
    Robert Cassells

    1875–1900
    James Holburn Cassells

    1878–1947
Co. Armagh: Castles/Cassells, Turkington, McBride, Hanna, Boston, Abraham, Geddis, Gilkinson, Humphries, McCormick, Corner, Serplus
Co. Antrim: Cassells, Hayes, Campbell, Saulters, Abernethy, Crooks, Fryer, Stead, Cooper, Gardner, Montgomery, Hill, McCartney, McKeown, Sterrit, McIntyre, Orr
Co. Down: Hayes, Campbell, Nelson, Skelly, Pickering, Dixon, Taylor, Lowry, Gourley, Stewart
Co. Mayo: Layng, Fulton, Ruxton
Co. Kerry: Nash
Co. Dublin: Ruxton, Layng, Kelly, Wilson, Shea, Askin
Galway: Abbot

Offline Sunnyhill

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Re: Cassels and Possible link to Kennedys
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 21 December 23 06:26 GMT (UK) »
Also [making actually 3 DNA matches from Scotland whereas my earliest known ancestors are all from Ireland]
This is the one that Ancestry trees have going back to Henry Cassils b 1640 with father Gilbert Kennedy b 1603

James Cassells b abt 1839 Leven, Fife, Scotland

Parents

    James Cassells
    b 1818 Scoonie, Fife, Scotland [parents James Cassels 1791–1865 and Catharine Swyne 1792–1877]


    and Elizabeth Doig
    1818–1886

Spouse

    Christina Sharp

    1836–1866 m 1860 • Scoonie, Fife, Scotland

and children
    John Cassells
   1860–1939

    Margaret Cassells
    1862–

    Andrew Cassells
    1864–1934

Spouse

    Isabella Ritchie
   b 1849– m 1867 • Scoonie,Fife,Scotland

and children
   
    Elizabeth Cassells
     1868–

    James Cassels
     1870–

    Isabella Cassels ***** ancestor of my DNA match
    1872–

    Jane Cassels
    1874–

    George Cassels
    1877–

    William Cassells
    1880–
Co. Armagh: Castles/Cassells, Turkington, McBride, Hanna, Boston, Abraham, Geddis, Gilkinson, Humphries, McCormick, Corner, Serplus
Co. Antrim: Cassells, Hayes, Campbell, Saulters, Abernethy, Crooks, Fryer, Stead, Cooper, Gardner, Montgomery, Hill, McCartney, McKeown, Sterrit, McIntyre, Orr
Co. Down: Hayes, Campbell, Nelson, Skelly, Pickering, Dixon, Taylor, Lowry, Gourley, Stewart
Co. Mayo: Layng, Fulton, Ruxton
Co. Kerry: Nash
Co. Dublin: Ruxton, Layng, Kelly, Wilson, Shea, Askin
Galway: Abbot

Offline Sunnyhill

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Re: Cassels and Possible link to Kennedys
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 21 December 23 09:47 GMT (UK) »
It looks like this is the Gilbert Kennedy b 1603, a minister, said to be father of Hugh Cassilis:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Kennedy-12008


Gilbert's father is said to be Hew Kennedy but is also referred in the article to as Hew Cassilis:

 'Gilbert was the younger (and only) brother of John Kennedy, 6th Earl of Cassillis, Ayrshire, Scotland.'

 Perhaps the family referred to themselves at times as Cassilis rather than Kennedy and this became the surname for subsequent generations.
Co. Armagh: Castles/Cassells, Turkington, McBride, Hanna, Boston, Abraham, Geddis, Gilkinson, Humphries, McCormick, Corner, Serplus
Co. Antrim: Cassells, Hayes, Campbell, Saulters, Abernethy, Crooks, Fryer, Stead, Cooper, Gardner, Montgomery, Hill, McCartney, McKeown, Sterrit, McIntyre, Orr
Co. Down: Hayes, Campbell, Nelson, Skelly, Pickering, Dixon, Taylor, Lowry, Gourley, Stewart
Co. Mayo: Layng, Fulton, Ruxton
Co. Kerry: Nash
Co. Dublin: Ruxton, Layng, Kelly, Wilson, Shea, Askin
Galway: Abbot


Offline GR2

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Re: Cassels and Possible link to Kennedys
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 21 December 23 11:53 GMT (UK) »
If anyone was descended from the Earls of Cassilis they would be called Kennedy, not Cassilis. Here is a link to the entry for the Kennedys of Cassilis in the Scots Peerage. It is open at the page that deals with John and Hew.

https://archive.org/details/scotspeeragefoun02paul/page/474/mode/2up

Offline Sunnyhill

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Re: Cassels and Possible link to Kennedys
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 21 December 23 22:11 GMT (UK) »
If anyone was descended from the Earls of Cassilis they would be called Kennedy, not Cassilis. Here is a link to the entry for the Kennedys of Cassilis in the Scots Peerage. It is open at the page that deals with John and Hew.

https://archive.org/details/scotspeeragefoun02paul/page/474/mode/2up

All that one says of Hew's son Gilbert is that not much is known about him??

This reference suggests there was a change of name??

https://deriv.nls.uk/dcn23/9536/95363494.23.pdf

Gilbert  [senior - fourth  Earl of Cassillis??].... married Margaret, only daughter of John, ninth Lord
Glammis. By this lady, who afterwards married John, first Marquis
of Hamilton, the Earl had three sons. This Earl went by the
name of 'the King of Carrick.' He died in December 1576, and
was succeeded by John, fifth Earl of Cassillis, eldest son
and heir. [Not Gilbert's brother John - he was 6th Earl of Cassilis. Not sure how Hew fits in here???]
In a curious MS. in the British Museum, containing an account
of the Scots nobility in the reign of James VI., this is stated : ' The
ERLE OF CASSILIS, called Kanethy, being with his friends of the
same surname upon the west seas, in the Countie of Carrick, a
stewardrie and parcel of the shiredome of Ayre. There is of the
same name, in that Countie, and descended of his house, sundrie
lordis and gentlemen, whereof the principall is the Lord Barganye
and Blairquhoy, of little less living than the Erie himself. His
chief houses, Be CASSELLS and Dunnyre, 4 miles from the
bridge of Doune. The people are mingled in speeches of Irish
and English, not far distant from Carrickfergus in Ireland. This
mode of spelling Kennedy (Kanethy), seems favourable to the
supposition that the name was originally Kenneth.'
The founder of the Cassels branch, being probably driven
from Ayrshire in some of the feuds in which his family so often io 'ullte Jamili) of (Eitssds.
bore a leading part, settled in Linlithgowshire or counties adjacent,
and changed his name to CASSILLIS, the name of his ancestral seat
in Ayrshire. This has been corrupted in its spelling to CASSILLS,
CASSILIS, CASSILS, CaSSELLS, and to CASSELS, as it is now generally
spelt. The descent cannot now, however, be traced with certainty
much further back than the parish registers extend, which are
many of them in a very mutilated and defective state.
In old charters and State documents signed by the early Lords
CASSILLIS, the name is frequently spelt Cassles, CASSILS, and
Cassills. For many generations the family had used the same
arms and crest as those borne by the Marquis of Ailsa ; and in
1864, WALTER GlBSON CASSELS, of Blackford House, Edinburgh,
thought it desirable to strengthen his right by petitioning the Lord
Lyon King of Arms for permission to continue to use these arms,
with such difference and as ' nearly approaching to the aforesaid
insignia as accordant with the Laws of Arms.'
Co. Armagh: Castles/Cassells, Turkington, McBride, Hanna, Boston, Abraham, Geddis, Gilkinson, Humphries, McCormick, Corner, Serplus
Co. Antrim: Cassells, Hayes, Campbell, Saulters, Abernethy, Crooks, Fryer, Stead, Cooper, Gardner, Montgomery, Hill, McCartney, McKeown, Sterrit, McIntyre, Orr
Co. Down: Hayes, Campbell, Nelson, Skelly, Pickering, Dixon, Taylor, Lowry, Gourley, Stewart
Co. Mayo: Layng, Fulton, Ruxton
Co. Kerry: Nash
Co. Dublin: Ruxton, Layng, Kelly, Wilson, Shea, Askin
Galway: Abbot

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Cassels and Possible link to Kennedys
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 21 December 23 22:25 GMT (UK) »
I'd be very cautious about believing everything in any mid-19th century family history - I'd want to check the sources very carefully. Some family histories are meticulously researched but others are not quite so reliable.

According to G F Black's The Surnames of Scotland, the surname Cassels/Cassells/Cassils is of local origin from some place of the name, perhaps Cassilis (in 1363 Castlis) in the parish of Kirkmichael, Ayrshire.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Sunnyhill

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Re: Cassels and Possible link to Kennedys
« Reply #16 on: Friday 22 December 23 01:24 GMT (UK) »
I'd be very cautious about believing everything in any mid-19th century family history - I'd want to check the sources very carefully. Some family histories are meticulously researched but others are not quite so reliable.

According to G F Black's The Surnames of Scotland, the surname Cassels/Cassells/Cassils is of local origin from some place of the name, perhaps Cassilis (in 1363 Castlis) in the parish of Kirkmichael, Ayrshire.

Sure, but I think it gives a bit of weight to the theory about the name change and explains why people have it in their trees.
How can we check the sources?
Co. Armagh: Castles/Cassells, Turkington, McBride, Hanna, Boston, Abraham, Geddis, Gilkinson, Humphries, McCormick, Corner, Serplus
Co. Antrim: Cassells, Hayes, Campbell, Saulters, Abernethy, Crooks, Fryer, Stead, Cooper, Gardner, Montgomery, Hill, McCartney, McKeown, Sterrit, McIntyre, Orr
Co. Down: Hayes, Campbell, Nelson, Skelly, Pickering, Dixon, Taylor, Lowry, Gourley, Stewart
Co. Mayo: Layng, Fulton, Ruxton
Co. Kerry: Nash
Co. Dublin: Ruxton, Layng, Kelly, Wilson, Shea, Askin
Galway: Abbot

Offline GR2

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Re: Cassels and Possible link to Kennedys
« Reply #17 on: Friday 22 December 23 10:22 GMT (UK) »
It looks like this is the Gilbert Kennedy b 1603, a minister, said to be father of Hugh Cassilis:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Kennedy-12008


This link does not work for me. Which parish does it say Gilbert Kennedy was minister of? There are published biographies of all the Church of Scotland ministers which could be checked if the parish is known.