George E. Simmons & Dora Turner/Charity Waller of Essex

[092086]

Found from another family tree. Note the years and birthplaces.


   

Children of George Edwards SIMMONS Immigrant & Pioneer and Dora TURNER Immigrant & Pioneer are:
    19     i.   Rose Louisa Agnes SIMMONS was born 11 Sep 1875 in , Brighton, Sussex, England, and died 1 May 1955 in Nampa, Canyon, Idaho.
    20     ii.   Alice Dora SIMMONS was born 27 Nov 1876 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 17 Dec 1900 in Park City, Summit, Utah.
    21     iii.   Joseph Benjamin SIMMONS was born 30 Oct 1878 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 7 Apr 1952 in Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah.
    22     iv.   John William SIMMONS was born 11 Nov 1880 in Bountiful, Davis, Utah, and died 11 Jun 1961 in Heber City, Wasatch, UT.
    23     v.   Maud Bell SIMMONS was born 2 Aug 1882 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 8 Nov 1962 in Ogden, Weber, UT.
    24     vi.   Lilly May SIMMONS was born 6 Jan 1885 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 3 Jun 1892.
    25     vii.   Stephen Andrew SIMMONS was born 16 Nov 1886 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, was christened 6 Jan 1887, and died 18 May 1961 in Phoenix, Maricopa, AZ.
+   26     viii.   Miriam Bertha SIMMONS was born 23 Mar 1889 in charleston wasatch utah, was christened 2 May 1889 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 5 Apr 1960 in Provo Utah.
    27     ix.   Jabes Ray SIMMONS (Twin) was born 2 Jun 1892 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 5 Oct 1892.
    28     x.   Son SIMMONS Twin (Stillborn) was born 2 Jun 1892 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 2 Jun 1892.
    29     xi.   Fillie SIMMONS (Stillborn) was born 16 Oct 1894 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 16 Oct 1894 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah.
+   30     xii.   Miriam Bertha SIMMONS was born 23 Mar 1889 in charleston wasatch utah, and died 5 Apr 1960 in Provo Utah.
    31     xiii.   Jabes Ray SIMMONS (Twin) was born 2 Jun 1892 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 5 Oct 1892.
    32     xiv.   Son SIMMONS Twin (Stillborn) was born 2 Jun 1892 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 2 Jun 1892.
    33     xv.   Fillie SIMMONS (Stillborn) was born 16 Oct 1894 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 16 Oct 1894 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah.

[crisane]

I'm sorry but I think I am beginning to lose the plot here. The newspaper cutting is for the son of George Simmons and Dora Turner and the list of children are also for George Simmons/Charity and Dora Turner who are nothing to do with your Arthur whatsoever. This is why they do not have Arthur in their tree, they are not the parents and siblings of Arthur Simmons born in Essex county.
George E Simmons and Charity were born and lived in Sussex County until the 1880's.  The only thing they have in common is their names.
So unfortunately all the paperwork you have collected on the family of George E Simmons
and Dora Turner is nothing to do with your family. They are a completely different family, no connection to yours.
Your George and Dora came back from the US with two children born in Pennsylvania and then remained in Chigwell whilst having more children including Arthur.
George, husband of Charity moved to the US after Charity's death and before the 1881 UK census and stayed there until his death in 1902. He married Dora Turner a much younger woman and had more children to her.
George E Simmons may have led an interesting life and their is certainly plenty of info on he and his family but Arthur is not part of their family.

[crisane]

Also note that 5 of the children appear on this list twice.

Found from another family tree. Note the years and birthplaces.


   

Children of George Edwards SIMMONS Immigrant & Pioneer and Dora TURNER Immigrant & Pioneer are:
    19     i.   Rose Louisa Agnes SIMMONS was born 11 Sep 1875 in , Brighton, Sussex, England, and died 1 May 1955 in Nampa, Canyon, Idaho.
    20     ii.   Alice Dora SIMMONS was born 27 Nov 1876 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 17 Dec 1900 in Park City, Summit, Utah.
    21     iii.   Joseph Benjamin SIMMONS was born 30 Oct 1878 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 7 Apr 1952 in Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah.
    22     iv.   John William SIMMONS was born 11 Nov 1880 in Bountiful, Davis, Utah, and died 11 Jun 1961 in Heber City, Wasatch, UT.
    23     v.   Maud Bell SIMMONS was born 2 Aug 1882 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 8 Nov 1962 in Ogden, Weber, UT.
    24     vi.   Lilly May SIMMONS was born 6 Jan 1885 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 3 Jun 1892.
    25     vii.   Stephen Andrew SIMMONS was born 16 Nov 1886 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, was christened 6 Jan 1887, and died 18 May 1961 in Phoenix, Maricopa, AZ.
+   26     viii.   Miriam Bertha SIMMONS was born 23 Mar 1889 in charleston wasatch utah, was christened 2 May 1889 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 5 Apr 1960 in Provo Utah.
    27     ix.   Jabes Ray SIMMONS (Twin) was born 2 Jun 1892 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 5 Oct 1892.
    28     x.   Son SIMMONS Twin (Stillborn) was born 2 Jun 1892 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 2 Jun 1892.
    29     xi.   Fillie SIMMONS (Stillborn) was born 16 Oct 1894 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 16 Oct 1894 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah.
+   30     xii.   Miriam Bertha SIMMONS was born 23 Mar 1889 in charleston wasatch utah, and died 5 Apr 1960 in Provo Utah.
    31     xiii.   Jabes Ray SIMMONS (Twin) was born 2 Jun 1892 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 5 Oct 1892.
    32     xiv.   Son SIMMONS Twin (Stillborn) was born 2 Jun 1892 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 2 Jun 1892.
    33     xv.   Fillie SIMMONS (Stillborn) was born 16 Oct 1894 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah, and died 16 Oct 1894 in Charleston, Wasatch, Utah.

[crisane]

Hi
what is needed now is to find the marriage of George Simmons and Dora Webster(?) born Buckinghamshire because without it you can't get further back with any certainty.
Also proof of George and Dora's journeys to and from US prior to 1867.
Do you have a record of Arthur's journey to Canada?
Then of course what happened to Arthur's siblings?
Arthur's birth cert will tell you if you are on the right track with his mother's maiden name.
The problem with certificates is that the info is only as good as the informants memory and knowledge.
I actually did a simple table with all the info for both Simmons families but it really isn't needed as they are two separate families.
The death certificate for George 1907 would show his wife's name and Dora's 1925 probably has a son as the informant.

[092086]

I have the record of Arthur Simmons coming over from Liverpool to Canada on the Sardinian in 1890. It appears he was alone (no other Simmons on the passenger list) and was destined for Morden, Manitoba, Canada (where my grandma's side was raised)

I'm also going to search for a Death Record for Arthur Simmons on the Manitoba government archives and see if I have any luck there. I have since ordered the Birth Certificate (thanks, by the way) and can't wait for its arrival

What is puzzling to me is, assuming that that is not "my" George, how numerous family trees have the portrait that I showed earlier which also happens to be in my grandma's possession.

[crisane]

What is puzzling to me is, assuming that that is not "my" George, how numerous family trees have the portrait that I showed earlier which also happens to be in my grandma's possession.

It may be that your grandma came across the photos and information in a newspaper and kept it precisely because of the coincidence of names. Is your grandmother still alive? if so can you ask her how she came by the photos.
Hopefully you will have the certificate in a couple of weeks and that will clear somethings up.
I wish I could find a marriage for 'your' George and Dora. Ah well patience is needed until the cert arrives.

[092086]

Certificate should be here tomorrow, I put a rush delivery on it 

[crisane]

Certificate should be here tomorrow, I put a rush delivery on it 

Brilliant.  Patience was never my strong point when it comes to waiting for certificates.

[092086]

Success!

I'm assuming the "formerly Webster" implies that she is a widow of an unknown Webster...but why does Arthur list his mother later on as "Dora Webster" in his marriage certificate?

Now...it lists Dorothy's maiden name as Simmons...I hope this isn't going where I think its going.