Thomas PENROSE guilty of murder/manslaughter of LAMPEER of Truro

[AusJohn]

Can anyone help me to find more information about this event in 1668

I came across it while reading The Parochial History of Cornwall

It states that Thomas Penrose was indicted before the grand jury of Middlesex or Westminster, and found guilty of murder or manslaughter, and afterwards was tried for his life, and by the grand and petty jury found guilty of manslaughter etc. Penrose was condemned to death, and put into Newgate, where forthwith he received a reprieve or pardon of this offence from Charles the Second, under the broad seal of England, yet to be seen.

Thomas Penrose was in the year 1667 made Admiral of a squadron of ships sixteen men-of-war by Charles the Second to watch the motion of the enemy (Dutch). Peace was concluded in 1668 and it was from events which arose after this that the death occurred. Penroses own ship The Monk being an all cornish manned ship was crewed by men who volunteered because of their love and respect of their fellow Cornishman. The death occurred after the cornish men were stranded in London after non payment for their services by Charles the Second.
Lampeer was one of his crew. No given name is mentioned or age.
 
I have found the Lampier(many different spellings) name first appears in St Clement records With the marriage of Michael Lampier to Elizabeth Jackman 29th January 1617.
I have found eight children four daughters, four sons
I think the father Michael is too old at poss 68+ to be the victim

So could be one of the sons -
1. William bapt 24th March 1621 St Clement - no further records

2. Roger bapt 15th August 1624 St Clement - no further records
 
3. Michael 1631 born 23rd Oct 1631, St Marys Truro, bapt 8th Nov 1631, St Clement
Michael may have married - there are two possibly three births for father Michael, no mother recorded from 1658 to 1664 all babt St Clement

4. John 5th May 1640 bapt St Clement - not John he marries in 1669

Can find no transcript of trial (not sure if this means there is none or it has yet to be transcribed prison record or pardon although there is mention of pardons around the right time.Perhaps someone can enlighten me.

Where would Lampeer be buried and under what circumstances?

Lots of interesting reading about Thomas Penrose whose father married Verman; originally descended from the Penroses of Penrose in Sythney. His only child Martha married James Hals of Merther, Gent. Penrose died 1669. 
 
To read the full account go to this link
http://www.archive.org/stream/parochialhistory02gilb#page/28/mode/2up

Incidentally Michael Lampier of St Clement my 5xGreatgrandfather married Joan Penrose in Ladock 5 Nov 1731

Thanks in anticipation
Sandy

[ChristinaH]

Hello
Very interested to see your post concerning Lampiers of St Clement.  Michael Lampier, who married Elizabeth Jackman, was my husband's several times great grandfather ( I don't have access to the file at the moment).  I can tell you what happened to Michael Lamper (or Lampers, as it is recorded) who was born on 23 October 1631 and was buried on 5 May 1706.  He married Elizabeth Ashford, and they had at least 6 children.  One of their sons, Michaell, who was baptised in May 1675, is my husband's line from Michael and Elizabeth Ashford.

I haven't seen a copy of The Parochial History of Cornwall, but found your post really interesting.  From what I (and you) know, the only sons of Michaell and Elizabeth Jackman that this incident refers to must be William, born 1621/2 or Roger.

Let me know what you think!

[Jeuel]

I think you'd need to check s in either London Metropolitan Archives (Middlesex) OR the Westminster Archives to see if they have the trial records.

Might be worth reposting this on the London/Middlesex board.

[AusJohn]

Hello ChristinaH,

Welcome to RootsChat - I'm so pleased to hear from you

It appears I am related to your husbands side but would be interested to discover where we branch apart.
I  hadn't been able to find the marriage of Michael to Elizabeth Ashford but did find a possible 3 children. I will go further into this in a subsequent reply.

Is your husbands, last name Lampier? My maiden name is Lampier. Do you live in Australia, as I do, or elsewhere? I see you have a King in Victoria in your profile.
My Lampier ancestors came to Australia in 1866 settling in Victoria.

At the moment I am away in a remote area of Western Australia for a few months
Sometimes there is no internet reception
I only have my laptop with me - which can be slow - and no comfortable desk to sit at but I am really looking forward to sorting our family connection.

I do have a copy of my family tree on Legacy 7.5 on the laptop.

Just a couple of quick things -
On my original Thomas Penrose post you can read the Parochial History of Cornwall by clicking on the highlighted section or if it doesn't come up type in the highlighted words into the search bar or type the title into Google and it should come up.

On the forum it is possible to send a personal message, if you would like to, by clicking the icon on the left of the screen of my post but because you are new to RootsChat you will need to make another one or possibly two replies before you are permitted to do this. When you post a reply to me on  this post I will send you
another response and when you reply to that we should be ok for personal messages.

If there is a delay to my responses it may be due to no internet reception. Hope the above is clear. See my response to Jeuel on trial record in following reply.

Looking forward to hearing from you
Regards Sandy

[AusJohn]

Hi Jeuel

Thanks for your reply

I did think to also post this to the London board but when I received no replies here and I knew I was to be away
from home for some time thought I would wait until I returned.
As it is I have received 2 replies within days of each other on this topic and a reply from another board about my husbands family while away.

I did check the possibility of online London Metropolitan Archives (Middlesex) OR the Westminster Archives trial records but from what I could see the ones I require either don't exist, haven't been transcribed yet or I didn't look thoroughly enough. Perhaps someone on the London board might be able to guide me when I post there.

Many thanks Sandy

[ChristinaH]

Hello Sandy

Hope I am replying to your note in the correct way!  You are absolutely right, I am a complete novice at this, but so pleased that you responded.

The Lampier side of my husband's family is through the maternal line.  Graham's (husband) mother was Annie Lampier and William Hoskin's daughter (one of 11 children in total).  I have a wonderful photograph of Annie Lampier on my ancestry wall at home.  The only member of the family with the Lampier name is Graham's younger brother, who was given the name as his second name, which is lovely.  If only when we are young and having children, we are more aware of the importance of family names.  I think if we were, then we would be more inclined to use family names much more.

We live in Wiltshire in England and still have connections with Cornwall, and visit at least twice a year (to Graham's brother's family).  Cornwall is an absolutely beautiful county and much more accessible now that the roads have been improved.

Graham's Lampier line is (and this has been confirmed with a professional research person at the Cornwall Public Record Office):  all spellings are as recorded on the parish records.

Michaell Lampier and Elizabeth Jackman m: 29 January 1617-18
Michael Lampers, born 1631 and Elizabeth Ashford (banns read 1654, but no marriage record)
Their son, Michaell, baptised in 1675 who married Joan unknown
Their son Michael, baptised 1702, who married Mary
Their son John, baptised 1724 who married Cecilia Vivyan in 1746
Their son John, baptised in 1747 who married Margery Clymo in 1771
Their son Francis, baptised in 1790 who married Maria Tippett and Maria Congdon (2)
Francis and Maria Congdon's son Edwin, who married Catherine Prout in 1868
Their daughter, Annie Lampier who married William Hoskin in 1899
Their daughter, Ena, who married Charles Holloway in 1938
Their son, Graham, born 1942

Hope this gives you something to go on and you are able to access it OK.  Reply when you can and we can go from there.  I am so pleased that we have made contact and looking forward to hearing from you. 

Christina

[AusJohn]

Hi Christina,

So happy to hear back from you too.

I think we will have to compare details concerning baptism and marriage dates as I have different info to yours. Although my info came from both IGI extracts and Cornwall Online Parish records (they are free.) In most cases one source confirmed the other. Sometimes spellings are a little different but dates are the same.
This could just be that some records haven't been transcribed yet online. Possibly this could also indicate the death of an earlier same named sibling or a second marriage.

You can view the Cornwall Online Parish Records (free) by selecting the Cornwall board then clicking Cornwall Resources & Offers then Cornwall Online Parish Records FREE.
The IGI records are there as well as other resources.

One day I am going to order the IGI original films of the OPR's covering St Clement.
As you know Lampier can be spelt in so many different ways including Lampshire, Lamshear etc.
I always thought this incredulous and now know this is so but want to see for myself when this came about.

My husband and I have visited Cornwall and really loved it. We stayed in Hayle which is near St Ives where my Ancestors came from. The wheather was beautiful and the beach at St Ives was just like Australian beaches with its yellow sand so different to the beaches in other parts of England. Of course we went to the Resource Centre there and looked at the genealogical records they had. Walked the narrow twisty streets, tried to find Back Street and The Wharf which is where they lived, visited St Marys Church and Barnoon Cemetery where rellies are buried. It was very uplifting.

Will wait to hear back from you and go from there. Personal Messages should then be ok.

Cheers Sandy

[AusJohn]

Hi Christine,

How wonderful to have a photo of an ancestor. The earliest photo I have on my fathers side are of my father when he married my mother. He left Victoria in his late teens or early twenties and moved to New South Wales where he met and married my mother and never returned to Victoria. He was the only surviving child, his older sister Queenie aged nine, died of the Spanish Flu epidemic and his mother died two weeks after her of the same illness. His father eventually remarried buy there were no more children.
I will try sending a personal message and we will go from there.
Sandy

[AusJohn]

Hi Christina,

The following is my Lampier line as I have it -

Michaell Lampier m Elizabeth Jackman 23 Jan 1617 St Clement - they had 8 children. I think we agree on this?

Their son Michael b 23 Oct 1631 St Clement marr (I have unknown) you have Elizabeth Ashford banns 1854) I have a possible 3 children (Michael father no mother noted)
Michel Lampere b 26 Sept 1658 St Clement
Will Lamper b 3 May 1663 St Clement
Elizabeth Lampeere  3 May 1664 St Clement
You state 6 children - are any of the above children in your list? As you can see I don't have the Michael b May 1675

Their son Michel Lampere b 26 Sept 1658 (did this Michael die and then Michael b May 1675?) marr Janne Jenken (Jane and Joan/Jone are often Spelling or transcription interchangeables) 26 Mar 1695 St Clement they had a possible 4 children
Elizabeth Lampear b 15 July 1695 St Clement
Joan Lampear 14 Oct 1698 St Clement
Elizaabeth Lampeare 10 Mar 1700 St Clement
Michaell Lampeer 20 Mar 1702 St Clement

Their son Michael Lampier b 20 Mar 1702 marr Joan Penrose 5 Nov 1731 Ladock they had a possible 6 children - your tree has Michael marrying Mary (could be 1st marriage)
An b 10 Jan 1732 St Erme
George b 26 Aug 1733 St Clement
George b 26 Mar 1735 St Clement
Michael b 25 Dec 1737 St Clement
Richard b 13 Jul 1741 St Clement
Thomas b 19 Feb 1744 St Clement

Their son Thomas Lampshair b 19 Feb 1744 marr Grace Symonds 13 Jan 1771 Gerrans. They had a possible 6 children - this is where my direct line continues through their son George Lamsheer b 27 Dec 1780 St Just in Roseland.
 
George Lampshire marr Elizabeth Sellar 18 Jun 1803 in Redruth they had a possible 12 children and George died with last name Lampier 2 Jul 1862 in St Ives buried Barnoon Cemetery.

Their son George Thomas Lampshire b 5 Oct 1817 Mylor. George Thomas Lampire (my 3xGreatgrandfather) marr Eliza Wearne 14 Jul 1841 St Ives. They had 2 sons both b St Ives both named James Seller Lampier (various spellings) one died buried Barnoon Cemetery and the other travelled to Australia with his parents and his uncle William Henry his wife and their children.

As you can see my research has taken a different path to yours but with some of the same individuals.
I'm sure we will work it out.

Regards Sandy