( Now Completed ) Advice Please

[Templar75]

I am looking for the births of two of my friends ancestors please.

Their names are George West and Grace Horn or Horne both were married in Temple Parish Midlothian possible at Church in the Village of Stobs.

George we are unable to find for love nor money and the same with Grace, George is down as being born in Temple Parish in 1816 according to the Census of 1841, Grace is down as being born in Kirkcaldy 1814, George's birth year does not tie up with his death, he is aged 62 yrs which means he was born 1818, we have tried SP without any success.

George's parents we know were married in Edinburgh, William West and Catharine McKenzie 1804, we have all the children except George.

Could it be any of these do you think for George. ( 1 That his birth was not recorded.  ( 2 The records have been destroyed.

George died either the 10th March 1880 and Grace died 9th Sept 1885 at Temple Parish, this now makes Grace younger than George dying at the age of 65 means she was born 1820.

For Grace Horn or Horne. ( 1 Her birth was not recorded.  ( 2  Her birth records were destroyed.  ( She was an Orphan. ( 3 She was Illegitimate or ( 4 her parents went through an Irregular Marriage.

I know at the time they were born the parents were not legally bound to have the births of children recorded.

Any help or advice please would be gratefully accepted.

Best regards.

Archie.

[GR2]

Have you found them in all the censuses during their lifetime? Sometimes one census may provide a key detail missed out in others.

Graham.

[MonicaL]

Archie, might help people trying to help out if you included parents' names for George and Grace from their death certs. 

Monica

[tidybooks]

Hi All,

In the 1881 census, Grace West is a widow, aged 66 born in Kirkcaldy and is a lodging house keeper in Temple, so that would make year of birth 1815 approx. She was living alone. Was it a family member who registered Grace's death, they may have made a mistake.

Tom

[MonicaL]

From this post here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369047.0.html

George WEST b. about 1818 ? Midlothian  d. 1880 Stobhill - parents William & Cathrine McKENZIE

1880 WEST GEORGE M 62 STOBHILL /MIDLOTHIAN 698/B0 0007
(Source: ScotlandsPeople)

The Tombstone of George West and Grace Horne Temple Midlothian in Edinburgh.
Erected by G & J WEST
also their father GEORGE who died 10th March 1880 aged 62 years.

He was a cooper at a gunpowder mill.

George married in 1837:
1 19/05/1837 WEST GEORGE GRACE HORN/FR519 M Borthwick /MIDLOTHIAN 674/ 0030 0172
2 19/05/1837 WEST GEORGE GRACE HORNE/FR2859 M Temple /MIDLOTHIAN 700/ 0050 0168
(Source: ScotlandsPeople)

Grace HORN/HORNE  b. about 1820 ? d. 1885 - parents unknown

1885 WEST GRACE F 65 STOBHILL /MIDLOTHIAN 698/B0 0031
The Tombstone of George West and Grace Horn Temple Midlothian in Edinburgh.
Erected by G & J WEST
and their mother GRACE Horn who died 9th September 1885 aged 65 years.

Any help with this family would be greatly appreciated.

[tidybooks]

Hi All,

Just saw your post Monica that this has been searched before, this must be 4th search this week that I have wasted time on duplicate searches. Will leave it to the people who have already searched.

Tom

[MonicaL]

Archie has done a huge amount to try and help the original poster on this query which I think is what this post is about Tom. I think they have reached the final points where info is really missing and looking for additional help 

Monica

[Templar75]

Hi Monica, Tom and Graham,

                thank you all for helping me and Fred, Tom, I was the one who supplied the information regarding the headstone at Temple, I have researched all the burials there and taken all the photos of the same to assist others on this site, however Tom you have helped by telling us that Grace was a Lodging House Keeper that is extra info we never had how I missed that Census I don't know but thank you Tom your time has not been wasted.

At Stobs there was a little Church which I don't think is there anymore, so depending when it closed the records of birth may have been lost or damaged.

George's parents were William West and Catherine McKenzie married 28 JUL 1804 in Edinburgh Parish and they are down on George's death Cert.

As far as Grace is concerned she is a nightmare, however, there were only a handful of Grace Horns or Hornes from the 1600's upwards to around I think 1885 or thereabouts, one in particular at Dunfermline in Fife a family called Horne had a little girl called Grace which I think may off the same line as Grace.

Graham I tried all except the 1881 Census but thanks for that anyway, a good reminder to go through them all when searching.

Monica thanks for your great support on this as well, as far as I know Grace's parents were not mentioned on the death Cert which is a shame, this leads me to think she may have been an Orphan or perhaps illegitimate, or as has been mentioned before on the site that she took her place birth where her father was born and she had never been in Kirkcaldy Fife.

I have come across this many times with my family, many said they were born in Ireland when they were actually born in Scotland, it seems this was the trend back then and around the same time as Grace.

What did put me off at first was, The Gunpowder Mill at Stobs was the first of its kind in Scotland, the people who owned it were English and brought most of their workforce up from England, I thought at first Grace was perhaps English but I know otherwise according to Census returns.

Sorry if I have wasted your time but one good thing is the 1881 Census information about Grace.

Take care and thanks again.

Best regards.

Archie.
 

[tidybooks]

Hi Archie, Monica,

Sorry if I sounded miffed but the number of times you go on wild goose chases sometimes incurring expenditure was the fourth time this week, Archie I know that you do spend lots of time helping others especially Temple and surrounds, and I apologies to you for me letting of steam. I have followed some of your posts and you go far to assist people.

I may have been feeling under stress today, so have poured myself a glass of port, and it has made me feel a bit more relaxed. Sorry once again, was not trying to put you down, more power to you.

Tom