james freeman and eliza gates marriage

[rachelralph]

i am struggling to find a marriage of these two people. somehwere along the line i have added eliza's surname as gates and now cant find out why. i think i may have got it from a census where she was visiting hermother and father as married maybe? i just cant remember 

on the 1911 census they state they have been married 42 years. they were both born in sway hampshire si i would have assumed they got married here. there first childs birth that i have is in 1873 although there may have been children born before this.

[MaryA]

I must be searching incorrectly, the only James and Eliza I can find in the 1881 census are living in Oak Cottage, Lisbon Road, Millbrook, Hampshire and although the birthplace of Eliza is Sway, James was born Brockenhurst, the children, first born as you say in 1873 but in Southampton.

Strangely in the 1891 census she appears to be married to Charles Freeman, same two younger children with quite a few more......

The only way to be sure of Eliza's name is from the birth certificate of one of the children.  When you have this you may wish to look into this marriage.

James Freeman to Eliza Brann 11 JUN 1871      Shirley By Southampton, Hampshire
Groom's age 21 Wife's age 24
Groom's father Jasper Harrison

Extracted entry on the IGI
Bride's father Charles Gater

[MaryA]

I am extremely doubtful that I am looking at the correct family as you say he was born Sway, but then you don't give any ages to pinpoint them better, so I'm having to go with this.

In the 1901 census James is also noted as being born Brockenhurst, and somebody else has inserted the surname of Gates for Eliza's maiden name.  Two families living close by are named Gates however there is nothing, such as "daughter in law" etc. to connect them.  This information submitted by somebody without evidence as to source, should be viewed suspiciously until you have verified it for yourself, and I reiterate you can only do that by means of a birth certificate of one of the children.

If it confirms that the mother was Eliza Gates, I suspect the transcription on the IGI has been misread and the information should be Gates. 

She may have either been the mother's child from a previous relationship, or alternatively she may have been married before.

[suzard]

Hi MaryA
Wonder if rachelralph had the name Gates from 1881 census ?? as there is a Sidney freeman age 3 b Freemantle Hants  (Grandson) living in sway  with Charles and Ann Gates (and family)??
RG11 1190 59 12

Suz

[MaryA]

Hi Suz, there is certainly a Sidney of the right age with the family in 1891.

Looking further back I suspect Charles and Ann are the parents, there is an Extracted christening for Elizabeth Gates, 18 NOV 1849      Whitchurch, Hampshire, parents Charles and Ann but somebody has also submitted a birth for Eliza    04 SEP 1848      Boldre (which appears to be Sway), parents Charles Freeman and Ann Vofs?  I suspect somebody has actually viewed the baptism register for this, or has an original birth certificate and misread the first S as F as was written in those days, so surname for Ann may be Voss.  Needs checking to see the original.

Mary

[suzard]

there is a marriage reg FreeBMD
on same page Ann Voss Charles Gates



and there are these marriages FreeBMD
Sept qtr 1867
Lymington
on same page
Eliza Gates
John Bran
2b 942

1871
S Stoneham
on same page
Eliza Bran
James Freeman
2c 116

so was Eliza Gates widowed after a very short marriage and then remarried??

Suz

[MaryA]

Very short marriage!

Q4 1867 John Bran age  21    Lymington    2b   359

[rachelralph]

oh dear, thank you all for your help, i thought it may have been a very easy question. i guess not

i think i may need to work backwards and try and figure out where i got gates from

[MaryA]

i think i may need to work backwards

That's the usual way to research, although we may have sorted it out for you.