Anyone Near Renfrewshire that can help me?

[Montana272]

I am at my last ditch effort to find information on Charlotte Caldwell.  Scotlands People has no birth record, no death record for her.  This is all that I have.  Walter Cathcart married Charlott Caldwell on July 15th 1800 in Abbey Renfrewshire.  Together they had a ton of children.  All of these children were born in Abbey Renfrewshire.  Their address was listed as " Smithhills"  Last child born to this union was in 1825.  Walter & Charlott are not listed in the 1841 Census.  I did find some of their children.  I found a death record for Walter Cathcart who died in 1839, age 62 Born "Abbey" listed as a "carter" address " Silk Street"  I am sure this is he, for I found two of his daughters in the 1841 Census.  The youngest only 15 years old living on "Silk Street".  I found a marriage record for Walter Cathcart marrying again in 1831.  I thought it was the son Walter, but later discovered it was not his son.  So either Charlotte died between 1825 and 1831 or they were divorced?  Did they even do that back then?  I think she died.  This family did not appear to be poor.  I am sure they could afford a headstone for Charlotte.  Maybe it is gone by now.  But even if it existed, I don't know where they buried her.  Their Parrish is listed as "Abbey"  I have bought Vol 1 & Vol 2  of Renfrewshire monumental inscriptions.  I thought for sure she would be listed in that.  Maybe I bought the wrong area ??  But  she is not in those two books.  I thought they had all the records for Renfrewshire in these two books.  So was I wrong? Is there another area where she may have been buried?  Sorry to sound like a dummy but   I am lost at this point.  How can I find out who Charlotte's parents were?   If Scotlands people have no record of Charlotte's birth or Death, does this mean that the Renfrewshire historical society would have no record either?  I have spent so much on every record that I thought would give me an answer, but nothing has led me closer, other than knowing that she must have died between 1825 and 1831.  Where do I go from here?  Where could she be buried?

[portybelle]

Have you tried the myrenfrew forum? Although it is more recent childhood memories mostly discussed there, someone may be able to help you out with details about the parish or burials or hopefully just point you in the direction of someone who could help.

http://www.myrenfrew.com/renfrew.htm

[RJ_Paton]

Divorce at that time was unlikely (although not impossible) - Given their marriage in 1800 and that she had "a ton of children" a relatively early death is highly possible. The third possibility is that he abandoned her.

Although you have the lists of monumental inscriptions and have been unable to find any entries for Charlotte this does not mean she is not buried in one of those cemeteries - It simply indicates that there is no headstone that could have been recorded. With regard to the Church records the recording of deaths in Scotland was at best very patchy. Although you state that you believe the family were wealthy enough to afford a headstone with a large family (implied by the "ton of children") living on the earnings of a carter, life would have been tough and probably with little cash to spare.

The two main cemeteries in Paisley did not open until later (Woodside in 1845 and Hawkhead in 1891) so if she is buried in Paisley it is more likely that she was buried in one of the Churchyards. Another possibility is that she was not from the area and was buried nearer her own parents. It was more traditional to bury loved ones in a place associated with the family rather than the place where they died. It is also possible that she and her husband share the same lair.

Both Silk Street and Smithhills are within a few hundred yards of the Abbey building itself so if they were Church of Scotland it is possible that they may have been buried in the Abbey grounds.
Paisley was also a hotbed for breakaway sects from the main Church and while records were maintained by the individual churches they are not available online.

Renfrewshire Council offer a search service of their records but their website simply states that depending upon the level of information provided a charge may be levied for such a search - they do not say how much although if the fee level is anything like that in Glasgow it will be hefty.

[Montana272]

Thank you for that information.  I should have also mentioned that a couple other records indicate that he was a "goods carrier"   I found him listed in the directories, but maybe that wasn't him.  It seems the family congregated around Smith hills and Silk Street, and looking at old photos on line, it was a much better area then some of my other ancestors residence.  So I just assumed they did fairly well.    Thanks for taking the time to explain it, so that I can at least see that I have not missed something.   

[RJ_Paton]

If we look at the information a little closer it unfortunately poses more question than supplying answers

I am at my last ditch effort to find information on Charlotte Caldwell.  Scotlands People has no birth record, no death record for her.

The main Old Parish records on Scotlands people are for the Established Church of Scotland with Roman Catholic records added fairly recently- in the main, birth records are reasonably well kept by the churches although there are exceptions and many records have disappeared over the years.

It is also possible that Charlotte was of a different church although the main schism of the established Church did not occur until the 1840's there were a number of other breakaway groups, each of which formed their own churches and maintained their own records.

  Walter Cathcart married Charlott Caldwell on July 15th 1800 in Abbey Renfrewshire.

Does this record show it as an actual marriage or is it a calling of the Banns (normally called the 3 Sundays preceeding the wedding in both the Grooms and Brides Home Parishes.)

If the notice you have is for the actual wedding then it is probable that Charlotte came from Abbey Parish as it was more normal for the wedding to occur in the Brides home parish.

With regard to Silk Street and Smithhills - both of these areas were levelled in the mid to late Victorian era and tenement buildings were erected which encroached right up to the Abbey burial ground. The Town Hall was constructed later opposite the Abbey and many properties were levelled to allow this, looking at old maps it is also possible that part of the burial grounds were also covered over.  The Victorian/Edwardian tenements were in their turn demolished over the years with the last of them going in the 1960's to leave the Abbey in open space for the first time in a number of years.

[Montana272]

The marriage record says " Walter Cathcart  & Charlet Calswell or could be Cadwell both of this parish were booked in and to be marrage Ja 15 on Day.  All the birth records for the kids say "Caldwell"  Unless Somehow her name could have been something different at birth that I am not catching while searching.   

[RJ_Paton]

The marriage record says " Walter Cathcart  & Charlet Calswell or could be Cadwell both of this parish were booked in and to be marrage Ja 15 on Day.  All the birth records for the kids say "Caldwell"  Unless Somehow her name could have been something different at birth that I am not catching while searching.   

It looks like at the time of the marriage Charlotte was living in the Abbey Parish - which doesn't get us any further forward.

There is also more bad news as far as Abbey parish is concerned in that death/burial records were not kept.

[Montana272]

What a bummer.  I guess I won't ever know.  Thank you again for helping me.

[WILLIAM 1]

hi silk street and Smithhills are in paisley as you know.you dont say what religion they are unless i missed it there is the abbey as you know but there is a church called mirrin. that is where the st.mirren comes from it is on incl street in paisley . i think they have grave stones in there i will take a drive there tomorrow and have alook for you. as paisley is only 4 mins drive for me.you have to remember most people at that  time could not spell even the people doing the certificates. i have 6 different ways people have spelt mclintock from that time and caskie.. i hope this helps you