Carpenter / Joiner

[Paul E]

Thanks Alexander!

Now ...  do you happen to know anything about Ships Chandlers?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,62599.from1117924107/topicseen.html#msg257841

cheers!

Paul

[Jane Eden]

I've only just found this thread so I can't follow the reference to the ships chandler but my other half is a joiner and a yachtmaster.

A carpenter works with rough timber which is just sawn. Roofing, flooring, shuttering. In the past making the structures for timber framed buildings.

A joiners works with planed and moulded timber. Doors, fitted kitchens, skirtings and architraves (doorframe to you and me). In the past they would have done the doors and windows.

Both are skilled trades and both would have served apprentices.

Jane

[ranaridibunda]

Hi

My x3 great grandfather, who was born in 1785, was a cabinet maker by profession. His sons all became either 'turner', 'cabinet maker' or French polisher and so did their sons, right up to my grandfather who opened a fish and chip shop !

These questions are only asking for speculative answers (unless anyone really DOES know something)...
[1] would all these trades have sprung from an apprenticeship?
[2] if your own father taught you, presumably there would be no formal apprenticeship ? Was that common ? If you served no formal aprenticeship then could you still be a journeyman or did you need papers ??
[3] would such occupations be recorded as belonging to a company as. for example, i.e. the watchmakers company or the tallow chandlers company etc because I can't find any record of such an association.
[4] seeing as there was such a strong streak of 'wood' in the family, do you think it likely that previoud generations would have also been so employed ? I don't know how strong such trades were in families in the 18th century. Obviously if I can find carpenters etc further back then I may be able to trace my x3 great grandfather's family.
Any idea welcome !

Cheers, Karen

[Bryan.]

Hi Paul

I am a Carpenter/Joiner, time served apprentice....janeswan is correct in her definition.

Regards

Bryan

[Paul E]

Thanks Bryan.

I found my ancestor in successive censuses moving from being a carpenter to a joiner so I guess there is some differentiation in skill / status, as his sons make the same move.

Shame they aren't around to fix up MY dodgy DIY - the genes must have been too diluted over the years!

Paul

[Jane Eden]

I have found the link for you. The Worshipful Company of Carpenters

http://www.thecarpenterscompany.co.uk/history.php

It gives the history from the 1200s and also gives a link to archives and talks about City & Guilds etc.

My other half, the time served joiner, thinks that the distinction between carpenters and joiners didn't occur until 1850-1900. He thinks that if the father was a master carpenter then he would be able to sign off the sons as time served apprentices. Even if they didn't have papers they would be able to work but maybe not in Stately homes or churches. If wood is in the family it is likely to be traditional rather like farmers, fishermen , framework knitters etc.

Jane

[Paul E]

Thanks for the link Jane - very helpful!

Paul

[ranaridibunda]

Hi Jane

Many thanks for the link and for the additional ideas. I feel that the woodworking may stretch back into earlier generations. I've had no luck tracing the father of my x3 great grandfather (other than I know his name is John !!) but there was a family in the same town in earlier times who were carpenters and hence it gives me a possible line of enquiry.

It's very strange actually since many years ago, when I had absolutely no idea of this connection, I myself underwent carpentry and bench joinery training on a government TOPS scheme. I passed the course but never took it up professionally - perhaps we have wood in our blood ! Thanks again for all the info, it's much appreciated !

Cheers, Karen

[manmack]

i am from a long line of joiners and carpenters,and we have always known the two trades as,carpenter,one who works in wood structurally and joiner,one who joins furniture and light woodwork,nowadays theres no ref to a carpenter only joiners,going off todays meaning,its a person who works with wood,mack