TREANOR surname - Goulburn, NSW and Tasmania

[Aurora]

I am interested in a John Treanor who was born in Manchester circa 1806 (although I have found no baptism on the IGI at familysearch.org who I can identify as this John Treanor).  Can anyone help me with information on this fellow?  I am also very, very anxious to contact a “J.Livingston” who left a message on the “Convict Tales” section of the website of the Perth Dead Persons Society (Western Australia) – www.perthdps.com   The message is:-  Contact: J. Livingston -  John TREANOR was 15 and from Manchester when he was sentenced to 7 years for petty theft in 1821. He was my grt. grt. grandmother's brother. He wrote home 1845 and I have his original letter. He became a free man and married. He changed his name to Jones and had at least two sons called Edward Treanor Jones and Thomas Treanor Jones. He lived in Goulburn, NSW. His letter is poignant. I am happy to send a transcript if anyone is interested. I also have a letter from his brother who was transported to Tasmania on the Prince Regent in 1818.

On the DPS site was an e-mail address for “J.Livingston” which was -  (*)
I tried sending him an e-mail at this address but it bounced back as being undeliverable!  So I think his entry on the DPS website must be very old. I am extremly keen to contact him, SO DOES ANYONE RESEARCHING THE TREANOR FAMILY AT MANCHESTER KNOW OF THIS “J. LIVINGSTON”?

At least I have the info about John Treanor being a convict from Manchester who arrived on the "Minerva" in 1821.  But I think the key to the whole thing is getting access to the letter he sent home in 1845.  I will be so thrilled if and when I finally see it!  It is no use having this info if I do not have a source and cannot verify it, and I think the source would be the letter.

On the Tasmanian Archives website I found details on a Daniel Traynor who arrived in Tasmania on board the ship Prince Regent (2), so I do not know if this is the brother that “J.Livingston” is referring to.

My interest in this family is that John Treanor was my great-grandfather and the Edward Treanor Jones that J.Livingston refers to, is my grandfather.  For 25 years I have had an absolute brick wall trying to find out something about my great-grandfather, who I believed was “John Treanor Jones” (variations: Trainor, Traynor etc).  I guessed (but had no absolute proof) that he was another convict, John Jones from London who arrived in the colony of NSW on board the “Heroine” in 1833, and settled in Goulburn, NSW.  But it seems that I was wrong about that.

I was so excited when I found this entry on the Perth DPS site.  It is wonderful to finally have a breakthough with this branch of my family.  But I am desperate to find J.Livingston, and to see a transcript of the letter written in 1845 – SO, HELP DESPERATLY NEEDED!!
From Aurora.

email address removed as per RootsChat Policy

[CuriousDiana]

Hi Aurora
As J. Livingston used the Perth DPS to place his comments, there's a reasonable chance he lives in W.A. If you go to whitepages.com.au you will find there is only ONE J. Livingston listed in the whole of W.A. (there are 2 entries, but both for the same address in Perth).  It is an uncommon name without the "e" on the end.  How about phoning him or writing to ask if he is the J. Livingston who placed the Treanor information on the Perth DPS website?  Good luck.
Diana

[Neil Todd]

Hi Aurora.

Would these be the Children?
V18473065 64 Born 1847  JONES  THOMAS T  Father JOHN  Mother ROSANNA 
V18441900 30A born1844  JONES  EDWARD T  Father JOHN  Mother ROSANNA

They are the only children to this couple.

Neil

[Aurora]

Dear Diana and Neil
Thank you so much for your interest and for taking the time to reply to my query re "J. Livingston" and the Trainor/Traynor/Treanor family of Manchester.  Diana, I did search for "J.Livingston" of Perth in the Telstra White Pages, and I think that I found the same entries that you did.  I am tossing up whether to phone this number.  I am a bit shy about phoning "cold", but I think I will phone some time over this weekend. 
The only thing is, the e-mail address as listed on the "Convict Tales" of the PDPS website, I did a search on Google and it said that it was a UK based web based e-mail site, so I then deduced that if "J.Livingston" had a UK based e-mail address, it could mean that he lives in the UK.  He also said that J.Treanor was a brother to his g.g. grandmother, who I assume was in the UK, when JT wrote his letter "home" in 1845.  Of course that does not mean that "J.Livingston" or his grandparents, g. grandparents, or g.g. grandparents could have immigrated to Australia from the UK, sometime after 1845.

Neil, these early baptisms from the NSW BDM site I had found a long time ago.  Edward Treanor Jones was my grandfather, he was baptised in 1844 at Goulburn, NSW, by Dean William Sowerby, a C/E baptism.  His brother Thomas Trainor Jones was baptised at Burrowa, NSW, a R/C baptism.  There were two other brothers, William and John, who also had "Treanor/Traynor/Trainor" as second names.  JTJ and his wife Rosina Matilda Curtis also had three daughters.  The Jones branch of my family has always been difficult (that is, the first generation has been difficult, I have most of the details of the seven children from 1844 to the present).  I cannot find a marriage for John and Rosina (Rosina's death certificate in 1874 says that she married JTJ "in NSW" at age 17 (which would be about 1843, as she was born at Stoke Damerial, Devon in 1826.  Rosina has also been reasonably straight foward to research. I have one branch of her family back to 1680 in Devonshire and Cornwell.  IT IS HER ELUSIVE MYSTERIOUS HUSBAND, JOHN TREANOR OR JOHN TREANOR JONES WHO HAS BEEN THE PROBLEM.  HE WAS A VERY INCONSIDERATE FELLOW, DECIDING TO TACK ON "JONES" TO HIS NAME!!
(possibly a strategy to disguise his convict origins).

Rosina arrived free in NSW on the "Lalla Rook" in 26 December, 1841.  I also cannot find a death for JTJ from 1851, when his last daughter was born to 1872, when Rosina re-married.  The family were in Goulburn then went to Burrowa, but most of the family ended up back in Goulburn where Rosina married for the second time (that is, if she did marry JTJ as her first marriage, it may have been a de facto relationship). 

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to try and help me.
best wishes, Aurora.

[judb]

Hi

I've come across this website which mentions a William Joseph Treanor Jones marrying a Kate BYRNE in Goulburn; they had a child in 1884.  The person posting on the website is also looking for information about the family.

http://www.gundaroo.info/genealogy/genealog.htm  The info is about 1/3 down the page.

I'll PM you the actual contact.   

There are a few discrepancies re convicts Treanor/Traynor icluding one who came on the Minerva but earlier than you have listed.  The one who came earlier was apparently convicted in Carrickfergus - happy to post if you would like it.

Judith

[Aurora]

Thanks Judith for your interest.  I have been in touch with Lee at various times over the past ten years or so, but we have not been in touch I think now for about four or five years.  The last week or so I have been intending to get in touch with her again, but I first wanted to update my family history narrative with the news of our common ancestor being "John Treanor" not "John Treanor Jones" (plus sort out all my scribbled notes into a more concise form) so that I can send her an updated copy.  I am sure she will be excited as I have been to discover this.  I have also been delaying contacting her, as I was hoping that I would be able to contact "J. Livingston" and maybe send Lee a copy of the 1845 letter.  But I think now I was too optimistic, expecting to get a copy of the letter immediately and solving the mystery of who "J.Livingston" is.

Her William Joseph Traynor Jones was a brother to my grandfather Edward Treanor Jones.  Though her Bryne branch she told me at the time that she is related to Joe Bryne, one of Ned Kelly's gang (Orlando Bloom played the role of Joe in the movie when Heath Ledger was Ned).  from Aurora.

[Dundee]

Hi Aurora,

I also have a letter from his brother who was transported to Tasmania on the Prince Regent in 1818.[/i]

He is probably talking about Thomas TRAINER who was tried at Lancaster on 27 Oct 1818 and transported to NSW on the Prince Regent 1 (1).  Thomas was then transferred to the Castle Forbes and taken to Tasmania.  Link to his conduct record:
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON31-1-42,190,35,L,80

He actually received his free certificate on 25 December 1825, but you will see that although he was free, his conduct record has a notation that he was fined for being drunk in 1833.  Unfortunately these early convict records do not have as much detail as the later ones.  His indent is not online but if you contact the Tas Archives they may be able to provide you with a copy or maybe a transcript if the original is in very poor condition.  The indent often names parents and siblings.

Thomas stated that he was 27 years old and a native of County Cavan in Ireland, so if he is your John's brother you would probably need to look there for John's baptism, not England.  You can order a copy of John TRAINER's (Minerva 1 (3) 1821) certificate of freedom from the NSW archives and it should state his native place.  You will also get this information from his indent.

This entry appears on the NSW index to the Colonial Secretary's papers:

TRAINER, Thomas. Per "Prince Regent", 1820
1821 Jan 20
Prisoner at Newcastle. Drowned when boat upset on 17 Jan 1821 (Reel 6067; 4/1807 pp.167-8)

Clearly this was not the Thomas who was taken to Tasmania - I think it is either the wrong name or the wrong ship.

As Judith said, there was also a John TRAINOR who was transported on the first journey of the Minerva 1 arriving from  Ireland in 1818 so you would have to be careful not to mix them up.
http://members.pcug.org.au/~ppmay/cgi-bin/irish/irish.cgi?requestType=Search2&id=28790

Debra 

[judb]

These are the possibles I can see from various convict records, for the chap convicted in Lancashire.:

From: Australian Convict Transportation Registers 1821-1822
John TRAINER,
convicted Lancashire Quarter Sessions, 25 October 1819
transportation 7 years.
Minerva - voyage date 26 July 1821

General Muster NSW, 1822
John TRAINER, convict
Minerva,
Employed by G S S Baker,  Parra  (presumably Parramatta)

Judith

[Aurora]

Thank you, Judith and Debra, for your input.  I will certainly investigate this Thomas Trainor who was transported to Tasmania.  I previously did a search for convicts named Trainor to Tasmania, and did not find him.   Aurora.