Author Topic: stonemasons  (Read 6048 times)

Offline Johnsonsyard

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stonemasons
« on: Monday 11 April 11 21:29 BST (UK) »
My ancestors were Stonemasons up to 1815 from throughout the C18th in the same village in North Yorkshire.Does anyone know what training they would have had or would they have been part of a Guild ?

Thanks

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Offline t mo

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Re: stonemasons
« Reply #1 on: Monday 11 April 11 22:33 BST (UK) »
as an historical fact it was the stonemasons who led to the free masons starting and as to a guild try this site www.masonlivery.co.uk  .
regarding training it , no doubt is the same as many other trades a matter of joining a firm of masons and being trained up with time in college as well also depending on the type of work being undertaken an ability to draw and art is a bonus as well .
regards
trevor
morters-cambs-norfolk   clements london    copas newington
went colchester essex    goodey essex -suffolk

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Offline supermoussi

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Re: stonemasons
« Reply #2 on: Monday 18 April 11 23:46 BST (UK) »
Hmmm. I think for most it was a case of learning on the job from mainly relatives. Once you get beyond 1800 the term "Stonemason" could mean anything from someone who filled in holes in the road to someone who designed St Pauls. The majority tended to the former.

Offline Billyblue

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Re: stonemasons
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 01:57 BST (UK) »
Well, Supermoussi, all the stonemasons in my family helped build buildings.
They are of Irish extraction, came to Australia as 'ag labs' but worked as stonemasons in Sydney.

This was early to mid 1800s and many of their buildings still exist I'm pleased to say.
I've never heard of road workers being called stonemasons???
 ???   ???   ??? 

Dawn M
Denys (France); Rossier/Rousseau (Switzerland); Montgomery (Antrim, IRL & North Sydney NSW);  Finn (Co.Carlow, IRL & NSW); Wilson (Leicestershire & NSW); Blue (Sydney NSW); Fisher & Barrago & Harrington(all Tipperary, IRL)

Offline t mo

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Re: stonemasons
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 08:33 BST (UK) »
i,m with dawn if  you,ve heard of stonemasons filling in potholes then it must be some sort of derogatory term for them as a proper stone mason was and is a highly skilled man especially those that specialise in the carving side of it  go round any cathederal or church and look at the work entailled in the columns and arches the vaulted ceilings especially all held together just by one piece of stone fitting tightly to another that isn,t the work of someone who fills holes in the road , i,m sorry but your way off the mark if you believe that
trevor
morters-cambs-norfolk   clements london    copas newington
went colchester essex    goodey essex -suffolk

Offline supermoussi

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Re: stonemasons
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 09:01 BST (UK) »
Sorry but we'll have to disagree I'm afraid. Some of my ancestors were Stonemasons so just in case you think I am sniping I am not.

I do not think you have looked further back in time, enough. The description of occupations has also changed over time, e.g. someone referred to as a "servant" of a university in the 1800s  would likely be a porter, etc whereas a "servant" of a university in the 1500s could well be the chancellor.

People that carved inscriptions were often called Stonecutters. What I said about Stonemasons still holds.

Quarriers, Road Fillers, Wall builders, House builders, Architects were all covered by the term.

Offline t mo

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Re: stonemasons
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 09:46 BST (UK) »
i appreciate that a name can be taken out of context but when you say go beyond 1800 and the name stone mason could mean any thing then i feel your on dodgy ground if you go right back stone masons mostly originate from europe when the church wanted more and more ornate and tall buildings as a place of worship instead of the wattle and daub that they were used to masons came over and started to build bigger and better than the next person town or place as i said free msonry came out of this time with those that were protecting themselves from the non masons and so it grew and what they were protecting was the skill in how to build something that wouldn,t fall down they were in fact engineers in there own right with only there hands and minds as a means to carry this out ,ok anyone can say i,m a stone mason someone who has the skill to build a dry stone wall can say i,m a stone mason but he,s not he,s a dry stone wall builder nothing more but it,s still a skill most can,t acheive , i spent 40 odd years as a bricklayer now i could say i was a master bricklayer as a lot do but i wasn,t and never professed to be i could do the job  but that was it .
regards
trevor
morters-cambs-norfolk   clements london    copas newington
went colchester essex    goodey essex -suffolk

Offline supermoussi

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Re: stonemasons
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 12:38 BST (UK) »
They were, and still are, called Stonemasons, and not Builders, quite simply because they transform and place stone. Whether the finished article is a house or a monument or a wall is immaterial.

Nowadays we live in a society that takes pretty good care of everyone, but back in the "good ole days" if you couldn't find work you and your kids would starve/freeze to death. If a stonemason came to the end of a big job on a church or townhall, and had lined up another project in another town, but it didn't start for a month, what do you think he did?:-

1) went on a holiday to the Maldives for four weeks
2) took small jobs to tide him over wherever he could find them, i.e. fixing a hole in a farmer's wall, building a funerary monument for the local esquire or even filling in the great bog pothole at the end of the vicar's drive..

Returning to the OP's original question the vast majority of people couldn't afford to send their chidlren into education or even to pay a Master craftsman to apprentice them. Trade's tended to stay in the family so a child was likely taught by his father, an uncle or an in-law.

If the OP's family were masons throughout the 1700s it sounds like they would have been able to provide all the on the job training you could ever need. Why pay someone else to teach your kid when you can do it yourself?



Offline t mo

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Re: stonemasons
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 19:00 BST (UK) »
i wasn,t and haven,t said that if a mason didn,t have work for a few weeks he would do nothing and to say would he take off to the maldives is totally  unecessary in the context of a discussion about what a mason would or wouldn,t do the main issue which you seem to be moving away from is the statement you made.
 saying that the name stonemason could be anyone who filled in holes in the road to someone who designed st pauls , THE MAJORITY BEING THE FORMER  that is the crux of this i,m sorry but i can,t except such a rash statement as fact .
trevor
morters-cambs-norfolk   clements london    copas newington
went colchester essex    goodey essex -suffolk