Great grandmother mystery

[kay2510]

I have been tryin to get some results for my great grandmother. Her single name was Mary Ann Baker,her son Alfred George Farnham my grandfather was born in the St.Marylebone Workhouse on June 19th 1890. It is written on his birth certificate that she was married to my great grandfather Alfred William Farnham.
I cannot find a birth certificate for her or a marriage certificate for them.
In 1912 was my grandfather married to Minnie Arena Maudsley.Mary Baker signed as a witness on their certificate.
Also to make more complicated Alfred William died in 1892. Mary went on to have a daughter Margaret in 1898 on her certificate it says father Alfred Baker mother Mary Ann Baker.
Does this mean that she never married?

[t mo]

hi kay2510
and welcome to rootschat .
i,ve had a look for births around what maybe the rightt era for a mary ann baker and found these two 1st with a reg dist of barnet oct dec 1871 vol 3a  p 160
2nd dist edmonton oct dec 1877 vol 3a  p254

also looked for a marriage for mary and alfred but as you say none show up but i did find a marriage for an alfred william farnham wed islington 1888  to either sarah ann r smith or an alice townsend , so it is pos that this is the a w farnham you know off but certainly looking at all the evidence you,ve posted it would appear your gt gran pos was living with him and used his name for proprieties sake for your grandad and margaret later on rather than have no name on the birth certs for them or at least margaret lot,s happened back then that were frowned on that are quite the norm nowadays  , my own gt gran had 3 children all with no fathers name on there birth certs but went on to marry and had another 6 children with the same man and it,s pos he was the father of the others to only he was married at the time of there birth , some things will always be unanswered now and your story may be one of them as well .
best wishes
trevor

[Valda]

Hi


A legitimate birth certificate for this period is unfortunately no proof of a legitimate birth, it just means the mother bluffed it out with the officials. More robust checking methods were not really in place until the second half of the twentieth century.



Regards

Valda

[Nick29]

Kay, do you know any more circumstances about the birth ?   Why would a married woman be giving birth in the workhouse ?  Was the entire family destitute ?

I'm afraid that it looks doubtful that Mary Ann Baker ever married Alfred William Farnham, which does cast doubt on whether Alfred really was the father.  However, it has been said that quite a high number of people have a birth certificate with a father's name of someone who is not their biological father.  Of course this can only be speculation, but some have speculated as high as 60%.

I suppose what I'm really trying to say is what Valda has already said - a certificate doesn't guarantee the facts, so we can never be 100% sure of what we see. 

[KGarrad]

1891 census shows the family together, and NOT in the workhouse!

Reference RG12/102/85/7
49 North Street, St Marylebone

Farnham, Alfred W  Head  M  39  Labourer  b St Marylebone
Farnham, Mary Ann  Wife  F  36  Washer  b St Marylebone
Farnham, Alfred C  Son  M  6 months  b St Marylebone

[carol8353]

Most babies back then would have been born at home,but if there were complications then they'd go to hospital. Most workhouses had hospital wings,perhaps he was born by caesarean and needed hospital help?

Even if they didn't have that little bit of paper to say they had married ,it looks like they were living as a family by 1891 though.

Carol

[KGarrad]

Mary Ann describes herself as a widow in 1901:

Reference RG13/3/60/51
106 Clarendon Street, Paddington

Baker, Mary Ann  Head  Widow  F  42  Laundry Washer  b Marylebone
Baker, Alfred G  Son  M  11  b Marylebone
Baker, Margaret  Daughter  F  2  b Paddington

[toni*]

how did Mary Baker sign as a witness? as Baker or Farnham ?

what was the father given as on the the mariage cert you have ?

[carol8353]

how did Mary Baker sign as a witness? as Baker or Farnham ?

what was the father given as on the the mariage cert you have ?

Don't know when Kay will come back online,so here's the answer to your questions Toni..

She signed as M Baker,the other witness was W A Longhurst. No guarantee's that it WAS his mum of course. Funnily enough he put his dad down as Alfred George Farnham Decd labourer(same name as himself)

Carol