how to find someone when they don't appear on any passenger list?

[mosher]

Hi all,

I need to find an ancestor that "disappeared".  His mother and all brothers and sisters emigrated to Australia (Fremantle) in 1909.  He was married so stayed in UK (Wigan area, Lancashire).  He decided to join his family but his wife was pregnant (they had lost 2 babies who died, this was their third) so she was to join him later.  He was never heard from again!

The wife remarried in 1928, but she had to get approval and show she had tried all measures to find him.

Now, that baby was born early 1911 (she appears in the indexes as born Jan-Mar, and on the 1911 census is 2 months old).  The 1911 census has the wife and baby only, not him. She is listed as married though.

I can't find him on any passenger list to Fremantle in late 1910/early 1911.  His uncle & family did come out and arrived Nov 1910 on the Bremen and I did think he might be on that ship but I can't find him (mind you a good part of that passenger list is not readable).  I have gone to the state library and gone through the microfiche for all arrivals in those months and couldn't find his name.

I spoke to a family research expert there who could not offer any further suggestions than what I had tried apart from suggesting he may not have got on the ship.  How could I check this?  Is there any list of people who were booked & paid their fare but didn't travel?  Maybe he went to London or Liverpool and got into trouble (got drunk and run over by a cart or something) and never left.

The problem is his name is not unusual - William Thomas Price (he went by Tom).  So looking for a person by this name brings up a lot of possibilities.  I really need to find if he did get on a ship, or if he didn't leave at all. 

His wife was Kate (nee Foster) and the baby was Annie.  They both married Rimmers later on.

I guess if he died somewhere other than with family, no-one may have known his name so he may not have been registered with his name and parents names.

I have postcards from him to his family saying how much he missed them, so I am presuming he didn't disappear by choice.  My father says the story he heard (this all happened long before he was born and he was told by his grandmother on the other side, so may be distorted somewhat) was that Tom was on a ship going to Sydney, was supposed to get off in Fremantle to see family but didn't.  Now that we have the postcards, it doesn't seem to gel as he was so keen to see his family so we are reasonably sure he wouldn't have been going on to Sydney.  Dad says his name was always hushed up if mentioned.

I have gone through all the WT Price, W Price, T Price or just Price on FindMyPast that may be him, but all were either travelling with wives, or totally different occupations (like clerks etc, he was a collier).  He was born 1887, in Pemberton.

Does anyone have any ideas of what I can do from here?  I have checked deaths in Australia, but none that stand out - again if he was here and died without family no one would know his parents names. 

To totally confuse things there is another William Thomas Price born around 1887 in Wigan, but he married a Mary, had children called Enoch, James & Mary, died 1918 and lived at 2 Iron Monger Lane.  That is not him!

I have also checked Trove for any notices of missing persons as they sometimes had, but nothing for him. 

Kate apparently had the Salvation Army try and find him - would they have archive records?

Sorry to be so long winded but I didn't want anyone wasting their time on things I had already checked so thought it best to give all the info!

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Mosher

[Billyblue]

Hi Mosher
You say 'now that we have the postcards' - can you read the postmarks?
Has anyone looked up electoral rolls for you?

Have you had this on another thread?  Or was that someone else?

Have you found the rest of his family who came out to Australia in 1910?

Have you contacted the National Archives to see if there is any incoming passenger info on him?
In the 1800s we often have passenger lists just saying xx steerage passengers and even xx cabin passengers, but one would think by 1911 there would be individual records.
Of course maybe he came under an alias.  Not sure whether he would have needed a passport in 1911.  If he did, have you checked with whatever department in UK issued passports at that stage?

You say you went to the state library but not which state library.  Did you mean the Battye Library in WA?

He may have embarked on a ship and then decided to get off before he reached his nominated destination.
Could he have missed the ship and then got on another one which went elsewhere?  A friend of mine's father did that, though admittedly that was from China - he and his brothers overslept and missed their ship to America so came on the next ship which was to Australia!!         That was early last century too.

Dawn M

[mosher]

Hi Dawn,

Yes he has been the subject of other threads, as I have gradually unscrambled what happened.  The last thread was looking for what happened to his wife as i didn't know what happened to him, which we solved.   

I have found his family, or the descendants of, in Wigan, and from their end the story is that he left for Australia and wasn't heard from again.

The postcards can be read but unfortunately have no date stamps.  They must have been in envelopes.  They say how much he misses them, and how he longs to kiss his mother's face again etc etc. 

I have checked the electoral roles here and the postal records in case he registered for mail.  There are always W Prices, but I do feel if he did get to Fremantle, he would have contacted his family.  The rest of the family is clear (I descend from the youngest child).  I don't think you needed a passport then to go to another British country.

Yes it was the Battye library I went to!  The researcher I spoke to said all passenger lists would be on Ancestors On Board (which now diverts to FindMyPast).  I have found others that aren't tho!  So I checked all passenger lists from about Aug 1910 to January 1911 when to be honest i was going crosseyed!  There were a lot of people travelling to Fremantle then!

Do National Archives have something other than what is on the micro fiche?  It would be good to see a list from the departure end.  I know sometimes on convict lists, there would be names crossed out as they didn't actually leave on that ship - maybe normal passenger lists may be the same?  Or if he got off somewhere else, he then wouldn't appear on the Fremantle Immigration list either.  I really need a departure list!

I have looked at the National Archives UK site and for passenger lists it sends you to Ancestors on Board, which is FindMyPast.

Thanks for your hints - yes he could have done any of those things!  He is a mystery... 

Mosher

[Billyblue]

Do the pictures on the postcards give any clue of where he might have been?

Of course, if he was trying to disappear, he may not have registered to vote so you may not find him on any electoral roll.

Dawn M

[majm]

Hi,
Do you think he may have come via America to East coast of Australia.....  Then perhaps either overland or coastal trader ....   that would also account for not landing at Fremantle as immigrant's first port of arrival...   
Have you checked if he went to NZ instead ...
Price could appear on handwritten lists as Brice, Trice or other mis reads on the Capital letter and of course variations on the remaining letters ..... so check the indexes for variations too 
As a British Subject he had big world to hide in IF he chose to .......
Cheers  JM   

[mosher]

Hi Dawn & JM,

The postcards were "from the homeland" type ones, so from UK.  There is another postcard, with pictures of Wigan, from someone else to the mother here saying that she hoped the mother wouldn't stop writing now that she had her Tom with her now.  Certainly seemed the intention was that he was to come to Fremantle to the family.

JM, he could have course have gone anywhere, so what I want to rule out is did he get on a ship from UK at all.  I have checked the hand written incoming Fremantle passenger lists for the relevant months, and there didn't appear to be anyone that could be him even with a misspelling (i.e. age, marriage status, travelling alone or with wife & children, occupation etc).

Any ideas on who to contact for a look up on departure lists if it is not indexed at FindMyPast?  I think if he did come to Australia and didn't contact his family, then we have no hope of finding him as he obviously wouldn't have wanted to be found.  It just doesn't seem to look that way, with the correspondence we have.  He doesn't seem like a man who was looking to escape (which was what I had initially thought).

Mosher

[majm]

Hi there,

Some more thoughts

  What was his occupation when he married, and is that different from his occupation when he was last sighted on a Census, and/or different from his occupation as noted on his daughter's b.c.  .... in case he followed that occupation in Australia
  Postcards .... was there any other person who may have been referred to as Tom, can you compare the senders signature with your chap's signature
  Is it likely he would have volunteered for service during WWI .... perhaps returning to the UK to enlist, or perhaps enlisting in one of the Empire's dominions .... 
  Have you trawled "trove" newspapers, perhaps looking for his wife's notices re searching for him

Here's some links in case you don't already have these
Aust and NZ Newspapers (both are regularly updated), also other newspapers are found at the National Library in Canberra, just not digitised and available online
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home

Shipping (crew and passengers on some of these) and re-check these regularly too
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/research/index/immigration.asp
 

Cheers,  JM

[mosher]

Hi JM,

He was a collier (see first post).
 I have checked names with occupations like labourer also just in case.

No, no other Toms in the family. 

I have checked NAA for possible WW1 but no dice with his name.  I even checked any that had "Wigan" in, but none seemed to be him.  The only UK WW1 I could find was the wrong person (see first post).

Yes I have checked Trove (see first post) for days and days using many different combination of words.  Unfortunately with "price" you get a lot of advertising to wade through also.  they used to run "missing persons" type columns, so I was hoping to find something but didn't.

What I really need is some advice on how to check lists for names who left UK or were supposed to leave UK around the dates late 1910, early 1911.

The NSW mariners site - I can't get any of the links to open for 1910/11 (apart from 1 or 2).  Do they work for you?

Thanks for your help so far! 
Mosher

[majm]

Re NSW Mariners site .... it is an ongoing project, volunteers offering to transcribe the various ships lists ....  so it is worthwhile to re-visit, or if you have the opportunity to volunteer to transcribe .... 

collier .... could be he signed on as crew .... perhaps as a lumper ....    Was he still showing as a collier on his daughters b.c. ?  Would his then address be on that b.c. ? 

Crew lists on vessels into Sydney are part of the online records of passenger lists .... At least one commercial website has indexed many of these.  Crew lists include the age, ranking/occupation, and show where the crewman was native to ....  So those indexes will have a likely year of birth for crew, in contrast to passengers whose age/native place etc is not recorded on the index.    ...  Hoping that tip helps in the searching ...

Re Trove,  you can search and take out the option for advertising, lists etc .... go to the advanced search option.  Also have you tried using the phrase option and included his initials ...  I agree though that PRICE can be a difficult surname to wade through ... bit like looking for SMITH .... 

NZ service records .... http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/130/cenotaph-database

I have no idea on lists for names who intended leaving the UK pre WWI ....

Cheers,  FINGERS CROSSED ...  JM