War Graves

[Richview]

Good Evening,
Wonder if anyone knows the answer to the following.
My husband and I take many volunteer photographs some are WW1 & WW2
War Graves. If they are a CWG memorial they are easy to find but we have found that where the family paid for a Private Memorial many have fallen/broken or disappeared.
Does this mean that under the current system many of the brave men that gave their lives now lie in unmarked graves.
Many are WW2 so in terms of memorial stones are not that old.
If the family paid then there has been no cost for repair or maintenance over the years to the CWGC -yes it is the family's responsibility as it is for any memorial but
how many family members are left after all these years.
Perhaps it's me but I find this terribly sad.

[IMBER]

When I worked at CWGC there was a policy regarding dealing with such situations.  This may have been modified more recently. I suggest you raise it with the CWGC office dealing with UK matters:

United Kingdom Area
Commonwealth War Graves Commission
Jenton Road
Sydenham
Leamington Spa
Warwickshire CV31 1XS

Tel: 01926 330137
Fax: 01926 456595
E-mail: ukaoffice AT cwgc.org

[Richview]

Thanks for that I will contact them.
Jackie

[englandphil]

Whilst private headstones ae not under the care of the CWGC, they are inspected approx once every three years as are all CWGC headstones.  The CWGC wont repair a damaged headstone, but if at some point the name of the casualty is no long legable they will arrange for a suitable marker to be placed ensuring that the name of the casualty is not lost.

[Richview]

Hi,
That is interesting as it's not happening in Wales! Over the years my husband and I have taken 1000's of grave photo's for families researching their family tree and sad to say some graves listed on the CWGC site are no longer there. Others we have picked up and dug out bits tried to join them together -there are even the Portland stone that can't be read.
We maintain a small churchyard and  there has been a WW1 soldiers grave missing for years -10 plus.
Must be different rules around the country which is very sad.
R

[englandphil]

I have to admit that experience tells me that the War graves in this coutry are not looked after to the same level s they are abroard.  However here is a reply I received from the CWGC when I asked the question last year

Thank you for your e-mail of 10 May 2010.

Many war graves, especially in the UK are marked by private memorials. In the case of First World War casualties, many private memorials were erected before the Commission was founded, or before it was able to begin providing headstones. Even during the Second World War, when the work of the Commission was better known, the war dead were often buried in private graves in civil cemeteries and churchyards, which might then be marked by private memorials. Overseas, these were, in some cases, erected by the local community.

Although the vast majority of private memorials are to be found in civil cemeteries and churchyards, occasionally they can be found marking war graves in war cemeteries and war graves plots. Although this would appear to contravene the Commission’s policy of equality of treatment, the exact reasons why they were allowed to remain is not normally known. They are now regarded as interesting historical anomalies and will eventually be replaced by Commission headstones, when they deteriorate beyond economical repair.

In general terms, the position is that the next-of-kin of all Commonwealth war casualties were offered a Commission war-pattern headstone but some declined, as they intended to mark the grave with a memorial of their own. In cases like this, we would not own the grave and would not, therefore, have the authority to remove the private memorial and erect a war-pattern headstone, without the permission of the owner of the grave. As long as the name of the war casualty is legible on the private memorial then, for our purposes, the war casualty is commemorated, adequately. Parts of the stone or kerbs on the grave may become damaged over time, but the Commission would not be responsible for their repair. Private memorials are inspected when our staff visit the burial grounds concerned and when, in the opinion of our Inspector, the war casualty is no longer commemorated adequately, steps would then be taken to remedy the situation, possibly by replacing the private memorial with a Commission headstone.

If there is a particular grave that is falling into disrepair, please let me know, perhaps even sending a photograph of the grave, to illustrate the problem. I could then check to see whether the grave has already been inspected by one of our Regional Supervisors, with a view to possibly replaced the private marker, with a war-pattern headstone.

[Richview]

Hi Englandphil,
Thank you that is very interesting and I agree our War Graves are not tended like those abroad.
We have been looking for some for 2 years and know they are long gone others we have discovered hidden in thick holly etc so if they are inspected I would say it hasn't been for many many years.
I'll certainly send some photo's to the CWGC and see what they have to say.
R

[Guy Etchells]

In addition to the reply from the War Graves Commission.

When looking for a "lost" war grave in a local churchyard or cemetery.

Remains of service-men have been exhumed in various circumstances, such as the church being demolished etc.
In these cases the CWGC may have paid to have the remains re-buried in a cemetery or sometimes a churchyard in the area.

This may explain some lost graves.

Payment is also made by the CWGC to the church or cemetery authority concerned to pay for basic regular upkeep of war graves (i.e. those with a CWGC stone) in their churchyard or cemetery.

I suggest if anyone sees a war grave that is not tended to bring the fact to the notice of the vicar or cemetery authority.

Cheers
Guy

[IMBER]

It's impossible for the CWGC to maintain, or arrange for others to maintain, scattered war graves in the UK to the same standard as the majority of overseas war cemeteries which are totally within their control.  That's not a policy but just a simple fact. Having said that there are, of course, larger war graves plots in the UK where the circumstances allow maintenance to the higher standard.  Where anyone is aware of problem war graves such as that mentioned by Richview they should contact the CWGC's UK area office (details above).