Naming conventions

[amh155]

Hello,

I am trying to find parents of my John McRae and hope someone may be able to help using naming patterns.

John married Flora McRae in 1788 (daughter of Duncan McRae, probably from Lochalsh. She was the niece of Alexander, 'aka Alistair Donn' of Auchtertyre). Her mother's name is unknown. Their known children were Duncan, Donald, Isabel, Annie and Malcolm.

Donald is my ancestor and he married Elizabeth Moffat. Their children in order were John (father's name), Mary (), Donald (his name), Margaret (wife's mother), Elizabeth (wife's name), Malcolm, Flora, Janet, James, Isabella, Duncan and Alexander.

I wonder if Mary could be the name of John's mother, or more likely Flora's mother?

John is listed as being 'in Sallachy' on his marriage record. and  I had read that a person being 'from Sallachy' or 'of Sallachy' meant different things. One meant living on ancestral land, another meant just working there etc. Does anyone have any info about this?

Unfortunately John and Flora died before 1855 so I can't find a death or burial record that would give parents names.

Hoping someone can give me some guidance??

Ann

[Billyblue]

Ann, if the family were using the Scottish naming conventions, it would be
first boy named after paternal grandfather,
second boy named after maternal grandfather
First girl named after maternal grandmother
Second girl named after paternal grandmother

Can't remember how it goes then, but the full list I have seen elsewhere on this website, so they are probably on the Scottish Resources board.

Dawn M

[AMBLY]

Hi Ann

A first look, Donald & Elizabeth's children appear to deviate from traditional pattern  - were there children born who didn't survive I wonder, and subsequent children given the same name (another strong tradtition)? What was Elizabeth's father's name and what were the years of birth for the list of their children?

For John and Flora, I see from the IGI (and these are submitted records):
DUNCAN 1789,
DONALD 1791
ISABEL 1793,
but none for:
ANNIE,
MALCOLM
When were the last two born?

Tradition would say the 1st son would be after John's father. Maybe both he &  Flora had a father named Duncan. But then I note that while there are 3 sons mentioned - none is "John" after John himself.  So this may mean there are missing births.

Apart from pattern deviations for unknown family reasons, if a  marriage was between  either a father or mother who had been married & widowed before with living issue from that first marriage, the naming pattern for any children they have together can go out the window and be no help at all!  Unfortunately -this all makes it harder to make an educated guess as to likely names of a missing parent based on pattern.

Have you checked any of Donald's known siblings to see what the naming patterns of those siblings' children look like?

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

You'll find a lot of verisons of the naming pattern - but the one most oft seen and oft 'proved' is simply the following (from SP website):
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?561
1st son named after father's father
2nd son named after mother's father
3rd son named after father

1st daughter named after mother's mother
2nd daughter named after father's mother
3rd daughter named after mother

Siblings of the parents (the babe's aunts & uncles) often get an obvious look in after from the 4th place on.

The same article also talks about some of the reasons why patterns were deviated or ignored:

And in case it gets to the point of wondering if "Flora' and "Mary' are interchangeable - it would seem not and I've never come across it myself.  This is also a handy website for name variations:
http://www.whatsinaname.net/

Cheers
AMBLY

[fifer1947]

Sallachy is an estate in Wester Ross which is in the hills overlooking Lochalsh and directly above Loch Long.  There is also a village of that name there.

http://www.maplandia.com/united-kingdom/scotland/scotland/highland/sallachy/

[amh155]

Thank you to all who have replied so promptly. As to the children of John & Flora. In looking for the baptism of Malcolm, I found a John baptised the same day but in 1810, which seems a bit too late, if Malcolm is born about 1797. He says he was born in Lochcarron according to the 1851 census. Annie was born about 1795

I checked Donald's brother Duncan's children and they seem to follow the usual order: John (his father), Finlay (wife's father), Duncan (after himself) and James ( no idea there).

John & Flora's children were born at Sallachy according to some sources, so maybe he came from there, and it's close to Auchtertyre where Flora probably lived. I think her father was dead in 1788 as he's not mentioned on her marriage, just her uncle Alexander.

Malcolm is a name not mentioned in Flora's ancestors and it is used in my family(the third son), so maybe that's a clue to John's father. I'll keep looking. It's a pity the death/burial records are so sparse before 1855.

Cheers,

Ann

[fifer1947]

Where were the children of John and Flora in the 1841 census? 

[fifer1947]

Hmmm related maybe??
1841 census
Address: Salachy
MCRAE       John       M       35               Ross and Cromarty           
MCRAE       Janet       F       25               Ross and Cromarty           
MCRAE       Mary       F       3               Ross and Cromarty           
MCRAE       Flora       F       1               Ross and Cromarty           
MCRAE       Mary       F       30       Female Servant        Ross and Cromarty       

[fifer1947]

and also at Sallachy

MCRAE       Duncan       M       35       Lotter        Ross and Cromarty           
MCRAE       Margaret       F       30               Ross and Cromarty           
MCRAE       Flora       F       5               Ross and Cromarty           
MCRAE       Ann       F       2               Ross and Cromarty           
(Infant)       F       6m               Ross and Cromarty           
MATHESON       Margaret       F       15       Female Servant        Ross and Cromarty       

Worth checking out the birth of Margaret Mtheson as she may be related.