DoB, please, from Cartes de Visite - Page 33 and 42A

[RobinClay]

I wrote, Thursday 07 January 10 20:23 UTC (UK)   -  I have my grandmother's grandmother's album of some 200 Cartes de Visite, with not very many of them identified.    I have scanned the empty pages, and front & back of each card. 

"It would be nice" to have some dates (from the fashions) and estimated ages, i.e. dates of birth - and names, should you know them. 
Also something (ANYthing) about the photographer - which might give a clue to the date / age / identity.

I'm posting the lo-res versions, so please don't bother to try to improve them.

I am gathering the comments to store in a file alongside the pictures, and, when finished, it will be quite a task to analyse them all and draw deductions as to the identity of some currently unknown.

For Page 32, see
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,531981.0.html
which also contains links to previous pages.

Here's Page 33, which only has two Cartes de Visite - but I'm also posting 42A, which I believe to be a duplicate of 33A (pix to follow shortly as a "Reply" - please wait) :-

[RobinClay]

Here is 33C - of Aunt Mary Page

We have seen her (I think) at:-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,436031.0.html      Pic 15D


I think that Mary Lindsay Page is not her
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,430778.0.html     Pic 7D

[RobinClay]

And here is 33A - and 42A.  I believe these are two copies from the same negative - does anyone disagree ?

Does anyone have any idea of whom or what he might be, or perhaps of what is in his right hand ? 

[HeatherLynne]

I think they are both from the same negative - I certainly can't see any differences between them.  As for what he's holding, it looks like a leather bag or something. 

I did notice though that he's wearing some dark-coloured spats!  It doesn't look as if these were for fashion so would probably have served a purpose.  Might he have been using machinery that could have entangled his shoe laces and the spats are there for health and safety reasons?!?!  Can't think why else he'd be wearing them 

Heather

[RobinClay]

> As for what he's holding, it looks like a leather bag or something.

Here's a closeup.  I wonder if it might be a hat of some sort ?

Probably NOT a football !

[RobinClay]

> I did notice though that he's wearing some
> dark-coloured spats!  It doesn't look as if
> these were for fashion so would probably
> have served a purpose.  Might he have been
> using machinery that could have entangled his
> shoe laces and the spats are there for health
> and safety reasons?!?!  Can't think why else
> he'd be wearing them

Here's a closeup of his feet. 

With a white shirt, I think it's unlikely he was working with machinery ?  But I think that's a *leather* apron he's wearing - I wonder why ?  And he's gone like that to the studio...

It's in a "family" album... he looks more like a workman than a family member or servant - butler, perhaps? 

The creator of the album, Martha Hammond Thornewill, nee Wright (of Eyam) (1806-1889) was widowed in 1858, and ran her husband's 200 year-old engineering business (Thornewill & Warham) for quite a while (I think more than 10 years), until her son Robert (1843-1914) was old / experienced enough to take over, so this character might have been the foreman?   They made steam engines, etc..

[HeatherLynne]

Hmm interesting    I expect you've already found this about Thornewill and Warham  http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/wiki/Thornewill_and_Warham  but I was wondering whether the folk at Graces Guide would be able to tell you about the photo if you sent them a copy?  There is a 'contact us' link on that page, might be worth an e-mail 

I did wonder whether it was some sort of welding hood, made of leather to protect from sparks but if that were the case I'd expect him to have had the window in the hood showing.  I think you could well be on the right track thinking he was the foreman - obviously getting close to the action, hence the protective clothing but wearing a light coloured shirt to show his status. 

How fascinating, there's lots of information about Thornewill & Warham on the internet 

[jim1]

33C-same woman but not taken at the same time as the other as she's dressed differently & it's a different studio.
Moira & Haig were at this address 1863-7.This would be the later part of those dates.
33A-early - mid 1860's,(but not 1864 as it doesn't show the Shakespeare Trienniel logo & not before 1863 as they didn't have the Royal Warrant until then)you can see the base of the posing stand behind the chair.
There wasn't any H & S in the 1860's unless you count self preservation.
No welding either I'm afraid,it wasn't viable at the time.
What he's holding could be something he's made rather than used.
Spats protected the shoes from mud & water or in this case maybe chemicals used in whatever he was doing,he may have worked in the leather trade.

jim

[Colin Cruddace]

A bit of speculation here as I haven't been following all your posts (but I wish I had something like that).

33A and 44A certainly seem to be the same picture but the latter appears to have lost Nottingham 

The leather football, I think is a sand-filled leather bag for beating soft metals such as copper, tin and lead/pewter. It provides resistance for a soft hammer, but it also gives to allow shaping. The spats and apron are probably protection against molten metal splashes, so could this photo represent a composite picture of his trade? ie. Casting alloys and then forming the final product?

Just a thought,
Colin