Margaret McVicar, born Kilmarnock abt 1843

[jonn]

Hello All,

Just to verify a wee bit here is the 1861 index for the McVicars, in Kilmarnock.

McVicar Alexander, age 54 years, Kilmarnock, born Renfrewshire,
McVicar Janet, age 43 years, Kilmarnock, born Kilmarnock,
McVicar John, age 17 years, Kilmarnock, born Kilmarnock,
McVicar James, age 14 years, Kilmarnock, born Kilmarnock,
McVicar Gavin, age 7 years, Kilmarnock, born Kilmarnock,
McVicar Alexander, age 4 years, Kilmarnock, born Kilmarnock,
McVicar Eliza, age 12 years, Kilmarnock, born Kilmarnock.

The Death for mother Janet Walker Mcvicar, occurred 1873. Kilmarnock, Ayr age 55 years. this death certificate if purchased from Scotlandspeople online should confirm who her parents were.

Regards,
Jonn.

[MonicaL]

Jonn, with all the info you have found on the Walkers so far, this link here has Janet's parents as Gavin as you thought and mother as ELIZABETH Boyd http://listsearches.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AYRSHIRE/1999-01/0916969042 (Greg, is this post old as it is now, 1999, one that your cousin was working on?).

There are certainly IGI entries for children to this couple, all submitted though, as are the IGI entries where mother as a Margaret Boyd.

Monica

[MonicaL]

The transcript I am looking at is failing me miserably (again  ). Just wondering where young William was for 1871 and whether he was with mother's family. Can't see them at all, again, in 1871 (1861's transcript had the family as McVien, found them now that you have shown me Jonn what to look for!).

1871 eluding me again... Just playing around on the general searches on SP and I am thinking that William may well be with his mother's family. There is a William McVicar showing in Kilmarnock, aged 9, for 1871. Other names in the household entry include a Janet, Alexander and a Gavan (as indexed).

Monica

[Ruskie]

I've just popped in to see how this search is going, and wow, Monica and Jonn - you are going great guns!   

Wonderful work.

[Paddles]

Monica and Jonn,

You gave me some home work to do, thanks.

Challenge.
I have two margaret McVicars. One born in Kilmarnock and one born in Lanarkshire. Both have Father Alexander and mother Janet Walker. Only can be the correct Margaret McVicar.

I have the 1881 census listing margaret married to John Laurie and their two daughters. I have not checked where the daughters were born on that census though! I do recall seeing a hint a long time ago about Wales and talking to my cousin about it.  I discounted this hint because she did not know anything about a 'Wales' connection, and because William was not listed. i continued to look for a Margaret/William (mother/son) connection to no avail. This Wales lead did interest me enough to look the place up in Google Maps. My cousin asked me to find out what I could about the Margaret Margaret McVicar marrying a John Laurie because of the visits during both Wars.
I do not have William's birth certificate. I do have a IGI but that only lists his mother's name, no father. I do not have a marriage certificate for William to Charlotte Frew, however, I do have a booklet from the 'Maryborough Family Historical Society', Queensland that gives a brief account of their voyage out to Australia in the 'Eastminster', and a passenger list. the passenger list has William, Charlotte and daughter 'Jessie Walker' McVicar.  The christian names 'Jessie Walker' had appeared to both my cousin and myself as being a bit weird, but significant; but why, we do not know.
Back to Margaret. The 1851 census is a great help indeed. Many thanks. A Margaret McVicar born in Kilmarnock has always been my belief that even today only in rare circumstances do people venture vary far away from their home to find work. this would have been the same in the mid 1800's. This is why i do not fully subscribe to the Lanarkshire connection 100%.
I have found a roots web document ID 12964 dated 20-08-2008 for Alexander mcVicar born 22 Feb 1805, Govan,Scotland and occupation 1882 master grain miller, 1841 carter, 1861 and 1871 farmer.  He is married to Janet Walker 21 Sep 1838, Kilmarnock Ayr. Parents are John McVicar abt 1790 and Elizabeth Colquhoun abt 1790. Janet Walker born 02 Apr 1819 in Kilmarnock, Ayr. Children are: John 1844, Jenny 1847,, Elizabeth 1849, gavin 1854, Alexander 1857, William 1859. All children except Alexander were born in Kilmarnock. Alexander was born in St Marnock (transcription error??). Jenny/Jameshave the same ages in this document and the 1851 census, likewise Alexander's birth location. I had discounted this document earlier because at the time I was still looking for a Margaret/William connection. Reviewing this document again with Alexander Snr and Janet Walker as Grandparents raising William (the actual grandson) as their son is now a possibility.  I found this document while searching for the 'welsh' connection document.
Jonn, ref you 11:20 post regarding Gilbert Templeton/Margaret McVicar living at Craigie: my thoughts exactly, but 'til now I have not been able to supply any 'proof'. Still cannot, but, feel I am getting closer.
The 'RootsWeb.Ancestry Ayrshire' thread you refer to Monica is not the same one, but, has opened up a possible excuse for my love of the celtic brown fluid, though!
I am now in a better position to order certificates for William's birth, Janet Walkers' death and Margaret McVicar/Scott marriage certificate(after investigation of the date etc). At this stage, I am going to put the Jessie Laurie/Robert Caldwell connection on hold.
All the signs are now pointing to the Alexander/Janet 1851 Kilmarnock connection, with the Scott Welsh Laurie connections to be further researched by me, then back to Dunbartonshire. the Scott and Welsh connections fill the gap between 1860 and 1880 for Margaret. The thought that William was raised by his grandparents had not occured to me before, but, some 'Jessie Walker' person must have had a big influence in his early life for him to honour her by naming his first born daughter in the way he did!
Monica and Jonn, thanks for your timely assistance.  I will post the results when I get my certificates.

Regards
Greg D.

[MonicaL]

Glad it all makes sense Greg 

Just a couple of things to add to what you have summarised above:

I have two margaret McVicars. One born in Kilmarnock and one born in Lanarkshire. Both have Father Alexander and mother Janet Walker. Only can be the correct Margaret McVicar.

We haven't been able to confirm what the maiden name is of the Janet who shows as mother to the Lanarkshire family in 1851. The IGI entry for birth of Alexander in 1856 in Kilmarnock, with mother showing as Janet Walker, is for the Kilmarnock McVicar family as transcribed by Jonn.

The thought that William was raised by his grandparents had not occured to me before, but, some 'Jessie Walker' person must have had a big influence in his early life for him to honour her by naming his first born daughter in the way he did!

Scots did in the main follow some form of naming pattern for their children. Not always followed in strict order but most did in some form or other - see for example www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm

One other very common thing to do (which, as with naming pattern, all give clues which help a lot!) is the use of surnames as middle names for the children's names. So, the naming of William's first born daughter as Jessie Walker McVicar helps with firming up the family that we have now. It was very common for illegitimate children to be brought up by maternal grandparents, especially if mother was young and went on to marry and raise a new family.

Regarding obtaining certificates, you are in a period where all of these Scottish BMDs can be viewed on line. www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk is the only source for BMDs and original census images. A minimum purchase of 30 credits for £6GB will let you view and dowload 5 original images (at a cost of c.£1.40GB each to search and view, versus ordering a certificate at a cost of £12GB each).

Scotlands People can get expensive if you don't know what you are looking for and view wrong certificates and images. But with the level of detail you have here, you should be able to view the right images with your credits.

Can I spend your units for you  If you, for 30 units (£6), I would use them on the following certs to verify everything we have:

1. William's 1862 birth cert
2. Margaret McV's 1863 Scott marriage cert
3. Possible 1871 census entry in Kilmarnock for young William to link him to the McVicar family
3. William and Charlotte's 1885 marriage cert
5. Margaret McV/Laurie's likely death in 1911

Let us know how you get on 

Monica

[MonicaL]

  Wishful thinking on my part! Minimum purchase now for 30 units is £7 (price increase from 1 April).

Monica

[Paddles]

Well, have obtained some certificates. The best one however, is Margaret's death certificate because it gave the address where she was residing when she died - No 164 Glasgow Rd, Clydebank, just happens to be the house her grandson William visited a John Laurie during WW1.  Sort of completes the circle.

Thank you, MonicaL and Jonn for your assistance.

Regards
Greg D.

[Meringue]

Margaret was my great grandfather Gavin's sister.  It was fascinating to find this on the first morning of getting hold of a family tree from my aunt!  I am part of the Llanelli branch of the family.  I hope you read this, bearing in mind the time that has elapsed since your original posting.