Margaret Elliott

[lynjon]

I am looking for some information on Margaret Elliott who married Archiblad McKay Nov 1864 then migrated to Australia.  They had their first child in Australia 1868.
  I have no Scotish history on both Margaret or Archibald.

ARCHIBALD MCKAY WAS A STONEMASON THIS IS NOTED ON THE EARLY CHURCH RECORD OF BAPTISM OF ROBERT MCKAY REF 2217 V45

Archibald's parents were deceased at the time of his marriage to Margaret Elliott.
Records that Thomas Elliott was a Mason
Mother Janet Armstrong

Children:

Thomas Elliott son age 8
William Elliott son age 6
John Elliott AGE 5
David Elliott son age 4
Robert Elliott (2) son age 1 month

In 1851 Census for Canonbie Parish, Dumfries, Scotland
Thomas Elliott age 47 MaSON LIVING WITH HIS WIFE AND CHILDREN IN sYKEHEAD, cANONBIE pARISH, dUMFRIES, sCOTLAND
Jane Elliott nee Armstrong age 50

Children:
Thomas Elliott sone age 17  Mason App
William Elliott son age 16
John Elliott sone age 14 Scholar
David Elliott son age 13 scholar
Robert Elliott (2) sone age 9
Margaret Elliott Daughter age 8 scholar

[AMBLY]

Hi Lynjon

IGI: Parents : Thomas ELLIOT & Jannet ARMSTRONG (married 1832 Canonbie) . Extracted births in Canonbie:
William 1834
John 1835
David 1837
Robert 1839 (died?)
Robert 1841
Margaret 1843

1841: "Skyehead", Canonbie, Dumfries
Thomas ELLIOT 35, Mason
Jannet ELLIOT 40
Thomas ELLIOT 8
William ELLIOT 6
John ELLIOT 5
David ELLIOT 4
Robert ELLIOT  1 month
Isabella BELL 14, F.S.
All born Dumfriesshire
(Note: relationships are not provided in the 1841 census)

Also in 1841: by using http://www.freecen.org.uk/
In the household enumerated immediately after Thomas (and on the same census Folio & page) is another ELLIOT family 
"Archerbeck", Canonbie,   
David ELLIOT 35, Farmer
Jane ELLIOT 20
William ELLIOT 15
Mary ELLIOT 11
Jane ELLIOT 7
Mary ELLIOT 55, Ind
William ELLIOT 20, Ag Lab
George MURRAY 14, Ag Lab
Hellen ARMSTRONG 17, F.S.
Mary READ 19, F.S.
All born Dumfries.
Ages probably rounded down for David 35 & Jane 20 & William 20.

It is concievable just looking at the Census and their proximity to each other, plus names - that  David ELLIOT is related to Thomas (brothers?) And that Mary ELLIOT 55, is their mother and William ELLIOT 20 is their brother.  It also looks as if David ELLIOT was newly married to younger wife Jane, and that his children William & Mary, and probably Jane - are all issue of a first, deceased wife.

1851: "Skyehead", Canonbie, Dumfries
Head: Thomas ELLIOT 47, Mason,
Wife: Jannet ELLIOT 50,
Son: Thomas ELLIOT 17, Mason's apprentice, b
Son: William ELLIOT 16
Son: John ELLIOT 14, Scholar,
Son: David ELLIOT 13, Scholar,
Son: Robert ELLIOT 9, Scholar,
Dau: Margaret ELLIOT 8, Scholar,
All born Canonbie

Also in 1851: Archerbeck, Canonbie, Dumfrieshire
Head: David ELLIOT 50, Farmer of 120 acres,
Wife: Jane ELLIOT 35,
Son: William ELLIOT 26, Farmers son employed on Farm
Dau: Jane ELLIOT 17, farmers daughter, At home
Dau: Agnes ELLIOT 9,
Dau: Anne ELLIOT 8
Son: Thomas ELLIOT 4
Dau: Mary ELLIOT 3 mths,
Servant: William ARMSTRONG 16, Farm Lab
Servant: Martha HUTTON 18, Farm Serv,
All born Canonbie

In 1861, Thomas (56) & Jannet ELLIOT (60) are still at Skyehead, Canonbie
With several of their children: William 26, John 25, David 23, Robert 19, Margaret 18

In 1861: David ELLIOT is still at Archerbeck with a large family:
Schedule 123: Head: William 36, married to Margaret 35 with 2 children, Agnes 3, Robert 1 and his Sister Jane 26,
Schedule 124: Head: David 59, Wife Jane 47, and children:
Agnes 19, Annie 18, Thomas 14, Mary 10, Wilhelmine 8, David 6 and a servant, James LAMB 16. All born Canonbie

IGI: Exctracted: Thomas ELLIOT b 27 Aug 1804, chr 8 Oct 1804
Parents: Thomas ELLIOT & Mary ARMSTRONG

IGI: Parents: Thomas ELLIOT & Mary ARMSTRONG - all Canonbie
David 1801
Thomas 1804
Margaret 1806
Mary 1806 (chr same date as Margaret)
John 1808
William 1816

Since Thomas, your Margaret's father must have died after 1855, his death cert off Scotland's People should confirm his parentage - which I think are probably Thomas ELLIOT & Mary ARMSTRONG.   The death cert of David ELLIOT of Archerbeck, should also confirm his parents - which I think will show he is Thomas's brother and that Mary ELLIOT age 55 in David's house in 1841 is their mother.

It may just be coincidence - but as his mother looks to be an ARMSTRONG, and his wife is an ARMSTRONG - it could be that Thomas & Jannet are blood related (cousins).

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

Hi

http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY/2006-11/1164283704
A number of consequetive postings made in 2006 on the above family - and seem to concur! A lot of info there.

Also:
Scotland's People
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/welcome.aspx
Wills section
David ELLIOT farmer of Archerbeck died there on or abt 8 Jul 1875, intestate
David ELLIOT mason of Skyehead died there on 27 Aug 1881, intestate

Can't see anything for (your) Thomas, the Mason though.

Cheers
AMBLY

[lynjon]

Many thanks for all your trouble...can't believe you found so much so fast

Lynette

[lynjon]

Can you tell me what the letters FS  after the names mean?

[AMBLY]

Hi Lynette

You're welcome! 
A spot of 'googling' should probably bring up some more info on the same ELLIOT family.

F.S. = Female Servant, the standard abbreviation in 1841 Census (M.S.) was male servant.  Often but not always - and especially in the types of places your ELLIOT's abide (ie, farms, rural as opposed to big cities & towns) FS & MS can be relatives (nieces, nephews, grandchildren etc, in-law or step) . The BELL FS in 1841 - on FreeCen, you can view the household enumerated prior to Thomas & Jannet, which is  a family named BELL.

Cheers
AMBLY

[lynjon]

Thanks for the info

All I need now is to find out info on Margaret's husband Archibald McKay.  Margaret and Archibald are my husband's great grandparents.  I have a lot of info on their lives in Australia but finding out what ship they came out on is nie on impossible.  The were married in Glasgow in 1864 and had their children in Australia starting in 1868.  You wouldn't think 4 years would turn up such a brick wall. 

Cn you tell me how I go about getting a birth Certificate on Margaret?

[AMBLY]

Hi Lynette

Civil Registration didn't begin until 1855 in Scotland - so there won't be a Birth Certificate for Margaret. Pre-1855, you have to go to Parish Records for Baptisms, some of which also record the date the baptised child was born.

On the down side: Some Parish records were better kept than others, many have holes (gaps) in the surviving records and then of course, if a family were not of the 'orthodox' church of Scotlamd and were instead, Catholic, Weslyan, methodist etc, etc - it can be harder & sometimes impossible to find certain event records due to the way the religion did things or again, to lack of surviving records.

On the upside:  The IGI exctraction of records for Scotland is by and large very good.  And a mother's maiden name is usually recorded, because  unlike the English records for example, the mother's maiden identity retained it's importance  throughout her life: marriage/banns, in the records of the children and at death/burial/MI's.  If you have a person born pre-1855 who had at least one event occuring after 1855 in Scotland, it's good luck - as there is provision in the forms to record both a person's parents (mother & father) .

For your Margaret - happily there appears to be a decent family trail through the IGI extracted records;  they appear to be 'regular' church of Scotland.
The extracted IGI records are reliable (human transcription error both modern & historical not-withstanding) as they come from the actual Parish records but be wary of submitted IGI records, which can come from a variety pf sources including family researchers; many submitted records have been shown to be totally off the mark.

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
So... Margaret's extracted baptism record is on the IGI  and is on Scotland's people where you can purchase a scanned copy the  original record.  It's quite unlikely there is much more in the record of any import than is on the IGI - but unless you get the document, you won't know what other snippets, or peoples names (witness' etc) might be there!   As an aside, one of my G'gmother's was baptised 1830 Scotland and the actual document named her purported father AND the name of her unmarried mother's father - neither of these names is on the IGI record of her baptism.

Hope this helps!

If you'd like some help with Archibald, just post up the details you have for him off the marriage certificate (age, occupation, parents names & occupations, abode at marriage, witness names etc) and we'll see what turns up!

A couple of things struck me - Archibald  and Margaret married Nov i864, yet their first child, Robert, was not born until 1868 in Australia.  And they married in Blythswood, Glasgow.  It was tradition to marry in the home Parish of the bride (though of course it didn't  always happen). And I would have expected at least one child born in Scotland  btwn 1864-1867/68 - thinking perhaps there was a child who died, either before or shortly after birth or in early childhood before they left for oz.

Cheers
AMBLY

[robbiesmum]

Hi Lynette
There are a few gravestone inscriptions at Canonbie which might be helpful:

Thomas ELLIOT mason who died at Sykehead 31st March 1873 aged 68 years. Also Janet ARMSTRONG his wife who died 5th May 1883 aged 82 years. Also Robert son of the above Thomas ELLIOT mason who died at Sykehead May 21st 1841 aged 2 years. Also David their son who died 27th August 1881 aged 44 years.

To the memory of Thomas ELLIOT tenant in Archerbeck who died July 10th 1831 aged 60 years. Also Mary ARMSTRONG his spouse who died at Sykehead 14th Jany 1868 aged 86 years. Also Agness SUMMERVILLE spouse to David ELLIOT who died at Archerbeck the 16th August 1835 aged 35 years. Also Agnes their daughter who died the 31st of March 1837 aged 6 years. Also Mary their daughter who died the 29th of May 1843 aged 14 years. Also the above David ELLIOT who died 8th July 1875 aged 73 years. Also William ELLIOT farmer in Archerbeck who died on the 20th Janry 1901 aged 76 years. Also Margaret BEATTIE wife of the above William ELLIOT who died at Archerbeck 23rd June 1904 aged 78 years. Also Agnes ELLIOT daughter of the above William ELLIOT and Margaret BEATTIE who died at Carlisle 28th Dec 1911 aged 53 years.

Sacred to the memory of Jane EDGAR wife of Thomas ELLIOT mason who died at Newtown 7th Novr 1874 aged 36 years. Also Margaret ELLIOT of Newton their daughter who died at Sykehead 1st October 1895 aged 29 years. Also the above Thomas ELLIOT who died May 10th 1909 aged 76 years. Also Catherine their daughter who died on the 26th of April 1933 aged 60 years. Also Janet ELLIOT their daughter who died at Newton 13th June 1947 aged 78 years. Also Sarah Jane daughter of the above died 21st March 1957 aged 86 years.

And possibly others at:
http://longtown19.website.orange.co.uk
(Follow links from main page to gravestone inscriptions - Canonbie church)

cheers
robbiesmum