Non-conformist baptism look up please

[Holmemoss]

Joseph Flather is my 4G Grandfather, born ca 1765 at Halifax. There are several marriages of a Joseph Flather in the 1780s in the Halifax area but, with a great deal of help from Sunlaws, we seem to have narrowed it down to just one.

Joseph Flather married Grace Lister at Halifax on 23 Apr 1789 and their children were baptised at the Congregational Or Independent Chapel in Northowram.

Unfortunately there is a problem. On the new familysearch site, there is a non-conformist baptism (RG4-8) at 'Halifax' of a Joseph Flather, father Joseph, on 24 Oct 1787.

This is before the marriage of Joseph Flather to Grace Lister. It is possible Grace was Joseph's second wife but there is no other likely marriage.

It is also possible, of course, that the baptism in 1787 has been transcribed incorrectly.

Could someone please check the 1787 baptism to check this.

Thank you.

[Marmaduke 123]

Hello Holmemoss

I've had a look at the image, and the transcription is correct.

Joseph s. Josph Flather of Northowram born Aug 8 1787 baptised October 24 1787 at Northowram Independent.

No occupation given unfortunately, and there are so many Joseph Flathers!

Anne

[Holmemoss]

Hello Anne and thank you. So much for my theory it might have been 1797!

I found four  marriages for a Joseph Flather in 1780s:

23 Oct 1782 - carpenter of Hipperholme to Hannah Chadwick of Hipperholme

7 Nov1784 - rope maker of Halifax to Mary Houghton of Halifax, widow

23 Apr 1789 - weaver of Northowram to Grace Lister

23 Sep 1789 - cordwainer of Northowram to Hannah Holdsworth, widow.

Joseph Flather (the carpenter) and Joseph Flather (the rope maker) had their children baptised in the established church. Joseph Flatherr (cordwainer) of Northowram was buried in 1791 so that just leaves me with the marriage to Grace Lister in April, 1789.

Their children after 1789 were baptised at Northowram Independent so it all fits except for the baptism of Joseph on 24 Oct 1787.

Back to the drawing board!

[Marmaduke 123]

I see the carpenter Joseph Flather had a child baptised at Coley 23/10/1791, where his abode was given as Northowram.

I suppose he could have had a little excursion into non conformity if it was difficult to travel for some reason. Unfortunately that child was also Joseph, and I can't see a burial for the 1787 one.

Joseph and Grace could have been living together before their marriage, or have had a child who was acknowledged to be Joseph's. According to Grace's burial record she was born about 1760, so she wasn't a kid when they married.

Anne

[Holmemoss]

Thank you again, Anne.

This is what I have but it is tentative as it presumes all relevant baptisms are on the IGI.

Joseph Flather was still alive in the 1851 census, a widower aged 86. Hence he was born around 1765 and there is a non-conformist baptism at Northowram on 20 Apr 1768, father Hugh Flather.

If the marriage to Grace Lister is correct, Joseph was a weaver of Northowram when he married in 1789. He was still in Northowram in 1841; his occupation being given as a shop keeper.

The only tentative burial I have for Grace Flather (nee Lister) is on 29 Apr 1836. The IGI just says 'non-conformist Halifax'. Is this the same burial you referred to?

If, as you say, she was born around 1760 then there is a baptism at Lightcliffe (which is not too far from Northowram) on 6 Apr 1760, father Will. Lister. Grace was denoted as living at Hipperholme when marrying in 1789; again not far from Northowram.

There are the following baptisms at 'non-conformist Halifax' (presumably Northowram); father Joseph Flather :

Joseph, 24 Oct 1787
Mary, 3 Sep 1789 - which fits with a marriage in April
John, 2 Sep 1790
Jane, Dec 1793
Ann, 22 Apr 1798 - my 3G Grandmother
Susannah, 5 Apr 1801

I do not have dates of birth for any of the above.

I am back to square one as the baptism of Joseph does not 'fit' unless your suggestion that Joseph and Grace were living 'ov'r brush' before they married is correct.

[Marmaduke 123]

Dates of birth, all baptised at Northowram Independent:

Mary Flather 5 May 1789
John Flather 20 Aug 1790
Jane - don't see her, and I've looked through the images.
Ann 22 Jan 1798
Susannah 14 Dec 1800

All abodes given as Northowram except Mary, given as Hypperholme.

Burial at Northowram Independent:

Grace, wife of Joseph Flather Northowram, buried 29 Apr 1836 aged 76.



Anne

[Holmemoss]

Thank you, Anne.

As Joseph's residence is given as Hipperholme for the baptism of Mary on 5 May 1789 then it is distinctly possible that it is a different Joseph Flather. Joseph, the carpenter, was from Hipperholme and married in 1782 so I suspect he may be the father.

As to Jane, I got the information from the 'old' IGI Batch No. C087191. It does not give a day for the baptism, just simply Dec 1793.

I am still puzzled about the Joseph baptised on 24 Oct 1787!

[Holmemoss]

Anne, could I possibly ask you for a favour please.

The Ann Flather baptised on 22 Apr 1798 is my 3G Grandmother; she married John Mitchell at Halifax on 25 Sep 1824. I have only just found out that John Mitchell was a widower when marrying Ann.

I have found a marriage of John Mitchell to Nancy Flather (possibly Ann's cousin) at Halifax on 26 Dec 1822 and the possible baptism of a child, William, at Halifax on 16 Nov 1823; parents John Mitchell and Nancy.

Is there a burial of Nancy Mitchell in 1823 and before September 1824?

I have also found three possible non-conformist burials for William on 19 Feb 1833, 18 May 1834 and 29 May 1836.

Is it at all possible to check whether one of these was at Northowram?

Thank you.

[Marmaduke 123]

I can't see a burial of a Nancy Mitchell anywhere. I notice though, that the 1824 marriage has John a widower of Rastrick. There are a couple of marriages at Elland which could be him, so I don't think it's safe to assume that the 1822 and 1824 John Mitchells are the same person.

As for William, none of the burials are at Northowram, and none appear to be the right age. 1833 at Illingworth Moor, 1837 at Square Independent, and 1835 at South Parade Wesleyan. The first 2 seem to be adults as no age or relative given, the last is 2 yrs 4 mths, father Henry.

Hope this helps but I fear it wont!

Anne