Jonathan Jagger born about 1770 Kirkburton Completed with thanks

[dobfarm]

Hi Chris

When I said Well off as Hirst family? to what amount is unknown but I mostly refer to not being on relief money from the parish overseers as this was the case when Bastardy orders were mostly applied for & made by the parish on the father to support the child and not them. In cities and towns it was common place with the poor girls from big families getting in the family way usually by occupation hazard of the oldest occupation there is (let You work that out) but up on the remote hills it was much less infrequent. There is problem for the parents and father to work out! Unless it was the passing tinker on a hot summers day in the haystack at Harvest time. Fun apart -What you have to think is why was the father up in the remote hilland farm-Hepshaw is near the Sheffield/Huddersfield pack mule turnpike road now the A616 trunk road! so a passing a traveler maybe? a carrier of cloth to Sheffield or cutlery to Huddersfield

Being poor or very rich is good news for researchers!  as there are usually records but in between working and middle well off means no records or are rare in the 18th century after the lush 19th century Census and GRO BMD records. 

In other words who ever you pick as the father there will be no records to support any theories  to help prove the real father (Jagger ? Gagger? Hagger -Dagger) or find his parents. ( Just another unsolved ancestry line' as there are thousands in ancestry so accept it and move on or it will drive you nuts) 

I have looked for a Will/probate for a Mr J Jagger and nothing fits the time period or location that mention the name Hirst at the Borthwick institute in YORK while I was there on other business.

So therefore there is nothing else I can think of? other than what I have put on here.

Dobby

These link Tell the story

http://www.hdfhs.org.uk/publications/journal/Journalexample.pdf

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,446914.0.html

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=284889.0

[kit54]

Thanks again for that Dobby,

Chris

[dobfarm]

For what its worth! Least you now know for fact.

I checked at Wakefield WYAS! the Quarter sessions Orders book 1794 onwards and there is no entry for a Ellen Hirst-John Hirst (Child) or Jo'n Jagger 1795/6 or 1797 and told no copies survived of Bastardy order forms at local parish Overseers records for them years afore said.

[kit54]

Hi Dobby,

Once again thanks for your info and help;I still am amazed by your kindness and generosity!

Now, I think that I have come up with something:

At John Hirst's marriage, in KB on 5/may 1823, one of the witnesses was Matthew Jaggar. He himself has written his name, it was not a verger etc and it is quite distinctive. I have been wondering who he was for quite a while.

Now I have also found the same signature at the marriage of Enoch Hirst's marriage in KB on 14/9/1801 (he was Ellin's brother). So, that means that the Hirsts and the Jaggar's were friends.

BUT! I have also found the same signature on the marriage of JOHN (not JONATHAN) JAGGER, to Susannah Swallow in KB on 19/5/1803.

So, this I think means that this John Jagger is my Jonathan Jagger.

 And, I suspect that Matthew is John/Jonathan's father.

I have been looking for the burials for both Jaggars and children of John and Susannah, but without success, but am hoping that something will crop up.

Thanks again Dobby, you have been brilliant.

Chris









 

[dobfarm]

Mathew Jagger(Jaggar)

There is only one in Kirkburton Holmfirth

Bapt 24 Nov 1754 Matthew Father Benjamin Jagger abode Holmfirth

there is a Matthew Jagger Died a 1826 Huddersfield age 78

Bapt 21 Jan 1749 Jn'o Mother Ann Jagger Abode Daisy Lee Holmfirth -Father Simeon Slack

suspect/assume Benjamin and Ann bro and sister

Benjamin Jagger of Mathew Bapt 25 DEC 1737   St Peter, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England
Check abode
Ann Jagger of Mathew bapt 13 OCT 1734 St Peter, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England
Check adode
SIMEON SLACK of Thomes Bapt 30 SEP 1732 Penistone, Yorkshire, England
Checs adode out on Simeon Slack in Ancestry PR's

[dobfarm]

Just possible age 16 in 1796

John Jagger of Mathew bapt 25 June 1780 Almondbury abode Farnley

to fit

JOHN (not JONATHAN) JAGGER, marraige to Susannah Swallow in KB on 19/5/1803.

[kit54]

Hi Dobby,

Thanks again!

I'm very pressed for time at the minute, (son going back to uni), but I will be in touch.

Regards

Chris

[dobfarm]

They ain't going anywhere these ancestors

[kit54]

Hi Dobby,

I've had a bit more time this week, and have made some progress:

On the IGI I found :

Hannah Jaggar bap 9/2/1805 Penistone, father John Jagger and mother Susanna Swallow.

I've checked out the Penistone Reg, and for the above, it states that Susanna was "formerly Swallow" and there are 3 more children:

Charlotte bap 11/7/1806
Mary bap 3/8/1807 and
John bap 21(?)/2/1811

But with these 3, it states that Susanna was "formerly Hirst".

So, I have looked at the Kirkburton Reg, and have found:

Joseph Swallow of Nab and Susannah Hirst of Knewl(don't know if this is correct), both OTP m 7/3/1791 and

Joseph Swallow Thurstonland buried KB on May 6th, 1799.

And! (hot off the press!):

(In KB Reg), Matthew Jaggar of Susannah Hirst of Nowles bap 1/4/1803.

(So, this is at least, John's second illigitimate son!).

But, perhaps the most important find is:

Penistone, 1814, Burials
John Jagger Abode (I think it says Sophley?)  Jan 31st  53

Bearing in mind all the above, I think that he is MY John/Jonathan Jaggar and it puts his year of birth around 1761. It also raises more questions, eg:

1. Where is his baptism (I've looked in Holmfirth and although I have found the Matthew that you found for me,  I cannot (to date) find one for a John or Jonathan Jaggar, about 1761, but the records are in an awful state, with many destroyed. Do you think that he is the one bap 1749?
2.What has he been doing between 1761 and 1803?
3. Why was he in Penistone?

What has struck me Dobby, is how close you were right at the beginning with eg John Jagger and the 1803 Thurlstone Land Tax, and all the loads of other info that you so kindly gave me; I wonder if  the sale of property  at Ingbirchworth is his son's?

Thanks again, you have been totally brilliant and tremendous! If I find out anything more, I will let you know,

Kindest regards,

Chris