Author Topic: Voller - in Surrey  (Read 8089 times)

Offline Valda

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Re: Voller - in Surrey
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 16 August 11 09:28 BST (UK) »
Hi

Using the Free Search facilities for the 1911 census  there is a couple in Hambledon registration district with children Arthur Ralph and William Albert. That George gives Dunsfold as his birthplace.

On the 1891 census George is with his grandfather and widowed mother.

1891 census RG 12 572 folio 111
The Common Dunsfold
William Voller79 Head Widower Carpenter Dunsfold Surrey
Eliza Voller 56 Daughter-in-law Widow Petworth Sussex
James Voller 26 Grandson Carpenter Dunsfold Surrey
William Voller 18 Grandson Bricklayer's labourer Dunsfold Surrey
George Voller 14 Grandson Agricultural labourer Dunsfold Surrey

George is with his parents on the 1881 census - father James ages 40 born Dunsfold.

In 1871 the family is again with William

1871 census RG10 825 folio 108
Dunsfold Common
William Vollar 59 Head Widower Carpenter Dunsfold Surrey
James Vollar 30 Son Married Carpenter Dunsfold Surrey
Eliza Vollar 36 Daughter-in-law Petworth Sussex
Sarah Vollar 7 Granddaughter Dunsfold Surrey
James Vollar 6 Grandson Dunsfold Surrey

Possible marriage for James and Eliza given her stated place of birth on the censuses - obtaining certificates confirms possibles.

Marriages Dec 1861  
PULLING  Eliza    Petworth  2b 465    
Voller  James     Petworth  2b 465

The other 1861 marriage in Lambeth is to Elizabeth Rose. That James was a gardener and his father was called George also a gardener.

1851 census HO107 1597 folio 254
Dunsfold Surrey
William Voller 39 Head Married Carpenter journeyman Dunsfold Surrey
Charlette Voller 39 Wife Married Horsham Sussex
Sarah Voller17 Daughter Teacher in school Dunsfold Surrey
William Voller14 Son Bricklayer labourer Dunsfold Surrey
James Voller 10 Son Dunsfold Surrey

So a marriage of William and Charlotte before civil registration. William and Charlotte's oldest child on the 1841 census is Sarah aged 7.

WILLIAM VOLLER
CHARLOTTE SHORT  
Marriage:  23 MAY 1833   Dunsfold, Surrey

This marriage looks the simpliest answer, though the last children don't seem to have birth registrations to allow a check against this marriage and their mother's maiden name, nor is there a baptism showing on the IGI/Family Search for a Charlotte Short in Horsham. You would need to check the marriage entry itself for Charlotte's status to see whether she was a spinster or a widow but she would be very young to be a widow.

The first baptism follows on logically after the marriage.

SARAH VOLLER  
Christening:  16 MAR 1834   Dunsfold, Surrey
Father:  WILLIAM VOLLER  
Mother:  CHARLOTTE

James would be the only child whose birth should have been registered but there was no fine until 1875 for non-registration. There is no indication from the Dunsfold baptisms they had any other children, other than William baptised in 1836 before the start of civil registration 1st July 1837.

JAMES VOLLER
Christening:  23 AUG 1840   Dunsfold, Surrey
Father:  WILLIAM VOLLER  
Mother:  CHARLOTTE

What looks to be their father William's baptism

WILLIAM VOLLER  
Christening:  22 SEP 1811   Dunsfold, Surrey
Father:  JOHN VOLLER  
Mother:  SARAH

Parents are in the next household to William and Charlotte on the 1841 census both born in county. Both still alive for the 1851 census both give Dunsfold as their birth place - John aged 62 and Sarah aged 77. Again in the next household to William and Charlotte.


Where do you have the alternative Arnell/Anthony surnames from for Charlotte?

A Harriet Short married in Dunsfold in 1836. She and her husband are on the 1851 census - Harriet aged 32 born Ockley Surrey, but again no baptism to help confirm her parents. She may or may not be related to Charlotte. No Shorts living in Dunsfold on the censuses or buried there.



Regards

Valda  
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline sarab

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Re: Voller - in Surrey
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 16 August 11 14:59 BST (UK) »
 :) Thank you all so much for your contributions. I am overwhelmed with the response in such a short space of time!! My aunt was buried last week  :( and my uncle expressed a need to know about his family tree (Voller) so thought would try and get as much info for him to talk over with his older brother (as neither have internet access) and had the idea of presenting a summary of findings to date  e;g; for his birthday in October as I know it will be a difficult time and will give him something else to reflect on.
I find all the "detective work", sifting through clues etc fascinating as they 'bring people to life' rather than a muddle of possible names, parts of anecdotes dates and places
Thank you again for your continuing support

Offline sarab

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Re: William Voller 1811
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 18 August 11 22:07 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all the info I have managed to get things clear in my head now except for  one of your comments throwing a spanner in the works....
"There is no indication from the Dunsfold baptisms they had any other children, other than William baptised in 1836 before the start of civil registration 1st July 1837."
because I thought earlier we had established that william was christened 27 sept 1811 Dunsford (married 23/05/1833) to Charlotte Short? did he not get registered until after he was married? or ahve i completely got a generation wrong or am barking up the wrong tree and have completely confused myself?

what I THINK I know is..
George Voller born June 1876 Dunsfold, surrey
married Ada Jane Hobbs 1903 ap/ma/ju Faringdon district vol2c p599

George's parents
James Voller (born 23 aug 1840 )married Eliza Pulling, ( born Petworth 1835 ish) in 1861

James' parents
William christened 27 sept 1811 Dunsfold, married Charlotte short? 23/05/1833

William's parents
John Voller born 1799 and sarah ? born 1774 married ?

Thanks in advance for any light you can shine on my confusion
lol!
Sara

Offline sarab

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Re: Voller -william's parents brain ache
« Reply #12 on: Friday 19 August 11 07:44 BST (UK) »
oooh my brain
Just been doublechecking everything through again and have spotted a glaring error John cannot have been born in 1799 otherwise that would make him  about 12 when William was christened! Must be 1789 which would tie up with john being 62 in 1851 census and that would make Sarahs birth 1780 ish not 1774 to tie up with her being 60 in 1841 census
started wondering if the 1811 william was John's sibling and the 1836 was James' dad but then cant be as that would make him 4.... ooh my brain hurts!


Offline Valda

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Re: Voller - in Surrey
« Reply #13 on: Friday 19 August 11 08:44 BST (UK) »
Hi

Part 1
Civil registration began 1st July 1837. The reference to civil registration and baptisms in Dunsfold registers was written in the context of the three children of William Voller and Charlotte.
Two were born before the start of civil registration (so cannot have birth certificates)

Sarah 1834
William 1836 (the other child whose baptism details I did not list but can be found on the IGI)

The final baptism in the Dunsfold register was for James in 1840 who should have had his birth registered but doesn't seem to have had. This means there are no birth certificates to double check against to see that Charlotte's maiden name was indeed Short and the 1833 marriage which because of its date and place looks to be the logical contender, is correct.
All three children, including William junior, are with their parents William and Charlotte on the 1851 census entry given.

I then went onto to give William senior's baptism in 1811 but didn't search further. The easiest way to check all entries for baptisms and marriages for Dunsfold is through this website.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountySurrey.htm#D

It lists 9 baptisms and 4 marriages. Also 9 baptisms for the surname spelt Valler and 4 marriages - this is the earlier spelling of the surname in the registers.

There are 5 burials (up to 1865)

15th March 1822
Sarah Valler aged 32

23rd February 1832
James Voller aged 17

29th Mary 1832
Sarah Voller aged 75

27th December 1841
John Voller aged 85 Union workhouse Hambledon

29th October 1855
Sarah Voller aged 83?


William senior's father John was also a carpenter (from his son James' baptism entry).
 
There are three John Valler marriages to Sarahs in Dunsfold
1785
1810 - probably John senior's son John (a bachelor in the marriage register - he was baptised 19th August 1787)
1827 - this John was a widower - it looks to be the marriage of the younger (from the ages of the Sarahs in the burial register, whose first wife died in 1822)

That would mean William's parents were John (baptised 1787 - always better to give baptism not born - the record is baptism or if you don't have a baptism but you have an age then circa in front of the year) who married first 12th June 1810 Sarah Grantham (born circa 1790) and secondly 16th August 1827 Sarah Hurst (a widow). His parents were John born circa 1756 - from the age given in the burial register, who married 13th September 1785 Sarah Tickner (born circa 1757).

The Sarah who was buried in 1855 from an index - always a difficulty if you are not seeing for yourself the primary source has an age of 83 on burial. She appears on the 1841 and 1851 censuses. The 1841 census usually rounds down the ages of adults, those over 15, to the nearest 5, so the 1851 census is the more accurate. On that census she is older than her husband John whose age was given as 62 - two years younger than his actual baptism year. Her's was given as 77 - so slightly younger again by two years than her age on burial. Both were born in Dunsfold.

John senior lived long enough to be found on the 1841 census (taken early June). He was in Hambledon workhouse at the time of the census aged 80 an agricultural labourer born in county. Workhouses had infirmaries. Many at the time of the start of the National Health service in 1948 became NHS hospitals. Older people ended up in workhouses because of poverty but also for medical reasons such as for instance dementia when their families were no long able to look after them.



Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Valda

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Re: Voller - in Surrey
« Reply #14 on: Friday 19 August 11 08:45 BST (UK) »
Hi


Part 2
The IGI (not a complete index of baptisms in Surrey so not a comprehensive index - gives two baptisms for John Vollers in Surrey in 1755. One in Chiddingfold which is under 4 miles away from Dunsfold and one in Witley further north from Chiddingfold and about 6 miles away from Dunsfold. There is also a John Valler baptism in 1754 in Ash which is further away - 15 miles. There is a burial of a John Valler in Witley in 1768 (no age) but then there are 6 burials of John Vollers/Vallers over time in Witley so the surname was obviously present in the village.
Without any further proof (you can check the 1785 marriage entry to see whether John was of a different parish from Dunsfold - though he only needed three weeks residency to be of the parish on marriage) it isn't possible to say which John Voller of these or any other baptisms not found on the IGI  may be John seniors.


You have to be careful when you are working from indexes - the IGI may not always have all the entries even for the same parish and only has baptisms and marriages (the improved version - family search may have burials and does for Dunsfold)

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&countryId=1927033

You need to check through all the entries in the parish register if only from the index (the actual entries themselves might give further information not found on an index). First names can often be the same. Consequently the Sarah on the 1841 and 1851 censuses actually turns out to William's step mother not his actual mother who was also called Sarah, as was his paternal grandmother.
Marriages by tradition take place in the bride's parish. Here you have been lucky in that all of them on the direct line appear to have been in Dunsfold.

Some copies of Dunsfold registers can be seen online. This topic explains.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,438088.0.html

 

Regards


Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline sarab

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Re: Voller - in Surrey
« Reply #15 on: Friday 19 August 11 18:45 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much for taking the time to give such a detailed reply - (part one and two!) and for all the historical snippets of general historical information that helps to bring it all alive and in context. I will work my way through it and follow as many suggestions as I can
Thanks again!
Sara

Offline Valda

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Re: Voller - in Surrey
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 20 August 11 11:39 BST (UK) »
Hi Sara


It had to be part 1 and 2 on Rootschat as there is a 'character' limit to each post of around 5,500 and I exceeeded it, so I had to split my reply.



Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk