John COBBOLD, born at Halsen (=Harleston?) 1715

[Tiemen]

Thank you Annes, Birtle and Pat for your new information and suggestions.

Annes, You looked at 6 fiches. Are those microfiches? And I understand no trace of Cobbold / Carbold?

Birtle, Do you think it is easily possible, that someone born in Harleston could be baptised and registered in Shelland? Any suggestion how to search? And what is POB (postal address?)?

Pat, What is a Local History Recorder? And what is PM? I am sorry that I am not familiar with some abbreviations.  [/list]

               
 Perhaps there is another way to look at it.[/color]
                   
 According to the Ordinary's Accounts of the Old Bailey (26th March 1750, page 4) John Cobbold has had a "House of publick Entertainment, chiefly for smugglers, in the Town of Yarmouth[/b]" for several years. That must be about 1744-1749.            
    
           

• He could have been married there with his Fanny. Is that just as difficult to find out? Or more easy.
• And perhaps there is a list of owners of public houses at Yarmouth?

Thanks from the Netherlands,

Tiemen

[Birtle]

Hello Tiemen. Yes, it's quite possible that someone could be born in one place and baptised in another. That could be the case if the expectant mother went to stay with her mother for the birth, to benefit from the latter's experience. She'd afterwards return to the parish where she was currently living, and the baptism/christening would take place there. (Formal registration of births only started in 1837, and even then registration of a birth could be made in one place and the baptism/christening in some totally different place - in the case of my immediate  family, hundreds of miles apart!)
In the 18th-early 19th cents I'd usually gamble on the birth and baptism happening within a village or two of each other, as might be the case with Harleston and Shelland. But, having looked at John ('Cockeye'??) Carbold's history as given in the Old Bailey proceedings and also the London Gazette http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/images.jsp?doc=OA175012310011 it might not be quite so easy where he's concerned. For instance, I see that he was apparently 'bred a baker' - but in Yarmouth, Norfolk, which is miles away from Harleston, Suffolk! And maybe it's just awful coincidence, but I see from apprenticeship records on ancestry that another John Carbold was a master baker in Beccles, Suffolk, in the 1720s... So you may have to look far and wide for JC's baptism. 
I don't think there's much more I can do to help (especially as I don't live in either Suffolk or Norfolk, much to my regret), but other rootschatters might be able to.
Birtle 
Btw (by the way), POB = place of birth. DOB = date of birth. (I use DOBp for baptism/christening)

[Tiemen]

Hello Birtle,

Thank you for making things clearer.

In the proceedings of the Old Bailey there are at least 2 persons with the name John Cobbold (or Carbold). They are named Jiffling Jack and Cockeye. And they were sentenced within a year from each other. So 2 John Cobbold died. But reading all the material, I have a strong feeling that they were mixed up by witnesses and jury. I am not sure that the procedure was as it should be. More likely is that they were condemned at forehand and evidence for the prosecution did not matter very much. They were outlaws and that was a reason enough for death penalty.

'My' John Cobbold lived in Brielle (Holland). I know that for sure. When he had died, a cousin came to Brielle to take the possessions and children of John Cobbold home to England. He did not succeed, because he had no papers to prove that he had any right or instruction to do so. That cousin was also named John Cobbold. He could be that other John Cobbold, who was sentenced to death.

Tiemen

[Suffolk Mawther]

Hello again Tieman 

Pat, What is a Local History Recorder? And what is PM? I am sorry that I am not familiar with some abbreviations. 

PM = is the personal messaging system on Rootschat, this is the way that we exchange private information and email addresses which are not allowed on the message boards.  If you look to the left of the message forms you will see the name and avatar of the person sending the message.  There is also a little tiny picture of a baby face, which if you hover over it will show that if you click on it you will see the profile of the person, you can use this way to send a PM or click on the little green scroll next to the tiny picture and that will allow you to send a PM.

The Suffolk Local History Council was set up in Suffolk in 1953, and part of the Council is dedicated to Local History Recorders.  At the moment I have almost 300 parishes covered.  Their main task is to record what is happening today for the historians of the future.  However, many of them are local historians who know a lot about their village.  Some will undertake family history research too.  A full list appears on the Suffolk County Council Infolink Service and there is a little more on our re-vamped website at www.slhc.org.uk/recorders.html

Pat ...

[Birtle]

Yes, I agree: I think jury, gaoler, the lot, got very confused as to who was whom and from where, also who was related to whom. That probably didn't help John Carbold the baker from Halsen one bit, if I'm correct in thinking he was the one who claimed he was innocent right up to the last. And on occasion it seems that Jiffling/Giffling Jack is identified not as another John but as James Carbold...
I don't envy you sorting this one out at all, but from my point of view it's been a fascinating read!
Best wishes,
Birtle

[Tiemen]

Hello Birtle,

Yes, it is a very interesting search. But also sad. Those two parents John Cobbold and his wife Fanny must have been terrified to know they are going to die and had left 3 very small small children without any proper care behind in a foreign country.

I have indeed wondered, why somebody with the name John got a nickname Jack. That would more suggest James, I think.

I don't esteem the legal system of those days very high. (It almost looks like legal murder).

Tiemen

[Suffolk Mawther]

Jack was always the nick name for John, today Jack is a popular forename on its own.

The nickname for James in England was Jim or Jimmy and in Scotland Jamie.

When looking at old photographs it is surprising how almost everyone had a nickname or their name was shortened.  It will not be long before this completely dies out as very few people use these names nowadays.

I love a particular photograph on my husband's Framlingham Archive website, one of the chaps in that photograph is 'Shumpty' Thorpe - where did that nickname come from .......  sorry I am going off at a tangent again   

Pat ...
Who should be packing boxes of books ready for our house move!

[Tiemen]

Thank you Pat,

I always thought 'Jack' is short for 'Jacob'. But thanks to your explanation, Jiffling Jack, isn't that unusual for a man called John.

Succes on moving your books and stuff.

A message for you, my helpers, for several days I will be offline, so I could not directly answer you, when you try to help me with information.

greetings from the Netherlands,

Tiemen

[Suffolk Mawther]

I fear in about a month I will be offline too whilst we move house - at the moment we do not have a house to move to!  However, we are looking at a property this week that we hope to rent until we can find a home.

For Jacob we tend to shorten it to Jake - we say Jacob with an 'a' as in bake, make, cake.

Bye for now, Pat ...