John COBBOLD, born at Halsen (=Harleston?) 1715

[Birtle]

I have indeed wondered, why somebody with the name John got a nickname Jack.

Jack as a nickname amongst the criminal fraternity could be applied to anyone, I think. For instance, we don't yet know who Jack the Ripper was, yet he's been given that name.... This is quite interesting: http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/8017.html
And btw, in the Norfolk dialect to jiffle is to fidget.
I envy you your house move Pat - I've been trying to up sticks and get to Norfolk from a landlocked abode for the last year. In vain. Hope it goes well.

[Tiemen]

Hello you,

It has been quiet for some time. But still I have no answers to my questions about John Cobbold from Harleston.

Can anyone help???

Thank you,

Tiemen

[Birtle]

Hello Tiemen,
I've just done a bit more investigation into the Yarmouth connection, and think that Harleston, Norfolk, as John Cobbold's place of birth is still a possibility. But you may need to look somewhere else for his place of baptism. For example, John's mother may have gone to her home parish to give birth in order to have the help and experience of her mother, but she would afterwards return to where she was living with her husband, and the child would be baptised there.
I've also found evidence of John and Fanny being in Yarmouth in November 1743. The original Yarmouth St Nicholas parish records are on familysearch and there I can see the baptism of "John Corbell s[on] of J[oh]n & Frances" for 24 November 1743. See https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12350-5913-81?cc=1416598&wc=661779 . Corbell is OK as a variation of Cobbold.
Then I did a standard search in familysearch for children of John and Frances 'Corbell' born in Yarmouth, Norfolk in 1745+/- 5, and immediately below the record for little John's baptism I saw one for the burial of a John 'Corbelling' son of John and Frances, in Topcroft, Norfolk, 1745. Corbelling is not a surname I have come across so I was a bit suspicious. I went to the original Topcroft parish records on familysearch https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12127-86127-12?cc=1416598&wc=660907. I was right! The entry reads 'John, son of John & Frances Corbell was [that's what the transcriber mistook for 'ing'] buried on the 27th day of December'.
I haven't looked any further in the Yarmouth or Topcroft parish registers, but it might be worth spending some time looking there for either John and Frances' marriage or the baptisms of their children during the 1740s. You might be lucky and find a clue to John's place of birth. And maybe also try registers for other parishes in the area.
If you look at a map for Topcroft, Norfolk, you will find that it is about 10 km due north of Harleston-cum-Redenhall. And Harleston is so close to the Norfolk/Suffolk border that it could easily have been thought to be in Suffolk either by JC himself or by the person recording the Old Bailey proceedings.
By the way, you can see which original Norfolk parish registers are on familysearch here: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12127-86127-12?cc=1416598&wc=660907#uri=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.familysearch.org%2Frecords%2Fcollection%2F1416598%2Fwaypoints
But perhaps you know that already!

Have you posted your inquiry on rootschat's Norfolk board? It might be worth doing that, and ask for someone to check the Harleston-cum-Redenhall registers for JC's baptism. That would be a start!

Birtle

By the way, I'm curious. What's your evidence for your John Cobbold living in Ipswich in 1745? Are you sure it's him and not one from a different branch of Cobbolds? There were lots of them in Suffolk at this time.

[Tiemen]

Hello Birtle,

First reaction: Nice surprice! You give me important clues.
I didn't know that familysearch had the registers.

I'll study your message and will come back on the forum to react again (also about Ipswich where I could have made a mistake).

Thank you,

Tiemen

[Birtle]

I didn't know that familysearch had the registers.

I agree they are not immediately obvious! To see what there is, go to https://www.familysearch.org/ as usual. Beneath the search boxes you will see 'Browse by location'. Choose eg Europe and then limit to whatever place you want eg United Kingdom. In the list of results you will see that some collections are labelled 'Browse images'. Those are the original images. The collection I've been using is England, Norfolk parish registers, 1538-1900.
They're perhaps not complete. For instance, I can't see Harleston/Redenhall    The reason might be that the parish did not give permission for the registers to be made available online. Who knows. But I should think that there are microfiche/films in the Norfolk Record Office or elsewhere which some kind rootschatter might be able to look up for you, if you provide sufficient information so that s/he does not have to look through pages and pages of entries!
Good luck.
Birtle

[Tiemen]

Hello Birtle,

1. about Ipswich: I must have made a mistake there. By googling the internet I came so many times upon John Cobbold, brewer from Ipswich, that it sort of came into my system. But there is no family connection as far as I know. We better forget about Ipswich.

2. about familysearch: Thanks to your suggestion I came upon a John Cobbald

name: John Cobbald 
gender: Male 
baptism/christening date: 07 Jun 1714 
baptism/christening place: RATTLESDEN,SUFFOLK,ENGLAND 
father's name: John Cobbald. 

And because Rattlesden lies next to Harleston, and the date of baptism is just the date I am looking for (John is 35 years when he was executed), I wonder how likely it is, that this is my relative.

I also found that on his family website Charles Fuller gives the data of many Suffolk places, including Rattlesden and there is the confirmation of the baptism of John Cobbald, son of John Cobbald (mother not named). On Harleston he gives very little baptisms and no Cobbold.


3. about Topcroft: I am not so sure that those Cobbolds are related. It is not a place, that gives any connection. And it is in Norfolk. I also found another Frances/Fanny Cobbold in Norfolk, who could not be related, because "my" Fanny Cobbold died just before John in 1750 (presumably in London):

Name: Frances Carbold  
Gender: Female  
Burial Date: 03 Nov 1772  
Burial Place: Norwich, Norfolk, England

There were also other Johns and Fannys Cobbold.
So I think it is best to concentrate on the places, where I knew they lived.

4. about Yarmouth: I find it likely that your suggestion about the baptism of John Corbell, son of John Corbell and Fanny, being my relatives is correct. Because I know John Cobbold lived in Great Yarmouth and had an Inn (or Publick House) there. And it is possible that this son John is the eldest of their 3 children. (Could be named after Johns father, whose name was also John - if the Rattlesden connections is right). The names of their 2 other children I know from the Dutch archives are Fanny and Mary. And in 1750 3 children were alive.


I am curious what you think of this.

Greetings,

Tiemen

[Birtle]

Hello Tiemen,
I'm not sure about the way forward at all. I would be very cautious about the Rattlesden connection, because Cobbold/Carbold/Cobble/Corble (etc!) is such a common name in Suffolk and over the border in south Norfolk, and John is a common given name.
Even though the Rattlesden PRs are presented in some detail on CF's website, I get the impression that the other extracts for example from Harleston etc focus purely on his family connections. The other thing is, familysearch is not complete, and so there might be a lot more John Cobbolds born/baptised in 1713 than appear there (Remember, the parish registers record baptisms not births - unless you're very lucky). In my own family investigations I have found 4 William Cobbolds born/bp within 5 years of each other (3 of them in Rattlesden, the other in a village not far away), but I found only two on familysearch. Another thing to bear in mind is the possibility that your JC was baptised some years after his birth and possibly not in his place of birth. So even if his age gives him a DOB of 1713, his baptism might have happened a year or three later. For example, one of 'my' William Cobbolds was 5 years old before he was baptised...
As for Harleston in Suffolk or Norfolk. Again, I just don't know, though I myself still wouldn't discount Norfolk.  It seems to me that there was confusion even in the 19th century as to what lay in Norfolk, and what in Suffolk. So I would suggest you don't concentrate on Rattlesden without looking as well at the other possibilities.
Maybe try and find the births of the children first?
Birtle 

[Mr Bish]

Hi All,

My Great great great grandfather John Corbell b c1827 Langham Suffolk emmigrated to South Australia in 1850 his parents were John Corbell b 1799 Ashfield Magna Suffolkand Elizabeth Warren b1804 Langham Suffolk, in at least one fo the census their name was recorded as Corbold.

Maybe there's a connection?

Regards

Mr Bish

[Tiemen]

Mr Bish,

There can not be a connection, because my last english ancestor died in 1750 as you see.
But I think you better start a new topic with your question, otherwise it will become confusing.

greetings,

Tiemen