Margaret Church

[MattieC]

Can anybody tell me why I cannot find any evidence of my grandmother's birth on IOM in 1880?  In 1881 she was listed on the census as living in Liverpool with her parents Henry and Ruth Church and brother Henry. On the 1911 census I have found her place of birth as Castletown IOM yet there seems to be no record of her and I have enquired of the IOM genealogists.  Just a shot in the dark but could she have been adopted?
Any help much appreciated.  MattieC 

[KGarrad]

The 1891 and 1901 census returns have her estimated birth year as 1882?

Where did you look for birth details?

P.S. Welcome to RootsChat!


1891 census, Reference RG12, Piece 2929, Folio 96, Page 17
19 Menzies Street, Toxteth Park, Liverpool

Church, Henry  Head  M  30  Police Constable  b London
Church, Ruth  Wife  F  31  b Newby, Cornwall (surely Newlyn?)
Church, Henry  Son  M  12  Scholar b Newby, Cornwall
Church, Margaret  Daughter  F  9  Scholar  b Isle of Man
Church, Matilda  Daughter  F  1  b Liverpool

[KGarrad]

1881 census, reference RG11, 5607, 43, 13
Mill Street, Castletown, Malew, Isle of Man

Churcher, Henry  Head  M  21  Fisherman  b England
Churcher, Ruth  Wife  F  22  b England
Churcher, Henry  Son  M  2  b England
Roberts, Patience  Mother-in-Law  F  53  Fishermans Wife  b England
Roberts, Margaret K  Sister-in-Law  F  16  Assistant (Dress)  b England
Roberts, Edwin C  Brother-in-Law  M  15  Tailor Apprentice  b England
Roberts, Thomas H  Brother-in-Law  M  12  Scholar  b England


And a possible birth!
1881, Castletown   Vol A1, page 51
Clurcher, Margaret

[MattieC]

Thank you so much for your help.  Unfortunately I too have found the same details as you and thought that both Ruth and Henry were born in Newlyn.  What puzzles me is that having gone on to the Cornish BMD site the evidence of Henry, Ruth and their son Henry seems to overwhelmingly suggest that the surname is Churcher and not Church.  I do know that there were a lot of variants etc. in the past and it does look as though this could well be my gt. gt. grandfather.  But....... I find that they are all listed as living on the IOM in 1881 and yet they also appear as Church on the same census for England as living in Liverpool.
Henry seems to have made a great leap from fisherman to policeman which I found rather hard to believe as I would not have thought he would have had the education.  He may have had a lifelong yearning for the sea and that was the path he took, only settling down to something with better prospects and wage once he was married and had a son and daughter to provide for.
I have posted a photograph of the man I believe to be my gt. gt. grandfather asking for info. as to the uniform and received a reply that suggested it might be a commissionnaire's uniform from Liverpool harbour board.  This information has been welcomed as my brother had said he thought somebody in the family was involved in Trinity House, also my father wanted to go to sea and his grandfather said it was too dangerous and prevented him from going.
Henry served in Liverpool City Police for 25 years retiring in 1908 though he is listed as being a policeman in 1881.
Thank you once more and any further ideas or info. will be much appreciated. 

[catnav]

I've just had a quick look at the Lawson micro site - follow the link from the Isle of Man Family History Society website.  It has the birth in Castletown listed, but also has the parents:

CLURCHER, Margaret 13 Apr 1881 Castletown 51 CLURCHER, Henry ROBERTS, Ruth

As the birth is in April, this accounts for her not being on the 1881 census, and for her age being estimated a year younger in following censuses.  I presume that this couple is the Henry Churcher and Ruth Roberts that marry in Penzance in Dec 1878 (FreeBMD).

Hope this is of help.  Have you traced the family backwards by actually sending for the certificates?

catnav

[heywood]

Hello Mattie,

You say you have Henry and Ruth in 1881 in both Liverpool and Isle of Man. Do you have the 1881 Liverpool details? I can't see them.

regards
heywood

[heywood]

You seem to have done a lot of searching so not sure what you have.

Do you have these baptism details - Edge Hill St Catherine

23rd January 1884
Hannah Churcher parents Henry (police officer) and Ruth

2nd October 1889
Matilda Massey Churcher Henry (Police Cnstable) and Ruth

[MattieC]

Thank you very much.  I too have come across the coincidence of the name Churcher as opposed to Church which ties up with wife Ruth and son Henry both born in Cornwall.  Cannot quite make the link with IOM and Liverpool as 1881 according to another post has my grandmother Margaret listed as being on the IOM and yet also with parents Henry, Ruth and sibling Henry living in Liverpool! The coincidence of Henry Churcher being a policeman and married to Ruth is not to be ignored yet I cannot get the link between fisherman, as listed in the marriage records and policeman as listed soon afterwards in 1881 Liverpool. I have never heard of Hannah Churcher whose baptism details appear in Edge Hill St Catherine that is a complete revelation to me.  Is the Edge Hill the one in Birmingham? 
I have traced many dead ends for Henry Church and Churcher born in Middlesex London around 1858-60 but none of them seem to appear in Liverpool at the right time.  I also thought it quite a leap in those days to come from London to Cornwall and found a Post Office sorter who moved from London to Exeter with his son Henry who later also joined the Post Office and moved to Bedminster Bristol. 
As you may see I am new to all this so any ideas would be gratefully accepted.

[KGarrad]

Cannot quite make the link with IOM and Liverpool as 1881 according to another post has my grandmother Margaret listed as being on the IOM and yet also with parents Henry, Ruth and sibling Henry living in Liverpool!

See reply #1 - Henry, Ruth, Henry, Margaret (age 9) & Matilda are in liverpool in 1891! Not 1881.

Reply #2: In 1881 I found what might be them, as Churcher, in the Isle of Man.