St Mungo Ecclefechan Thomas Kerr burial

[janeli_1]

oops, that would be my John(1801) having a brother Archibald and hopefully an uncle as well.
 

[Johnner Kid]

Thanks!   This ties in beautiful with what I have so far with Archibald Kerr I have.  ......Archibald seems to be a lot less common than names like John and William....

If Archibald was a particularly favoured name for the KERRs then the following three MIs may also be of interest.  Hope this stuff doesn't send you along a false trail.

Location:   Dalton, Dumfriesshire
Archibald KERR, who died at Edge of Trailtrow on 10th January 1830 age 43 years 
Also Mary KERR his daughter, who died 15th January 1824 age 8 months 
Also Mary NICHOL his widow, who ended all her troubles and sorrow 11th Nov 1861 age 76 years

Location:   Lochmaben Churchyard Burial Ground, Dumfriesshire
To the Memory of 
James KERR, Weaver in Lochbrow, who died April 22 1772 age 68 years 
Also Mary JOHNSTON, his spouse, who died August 1st 1766 age 66 years 
Also Archibald, son to John KERR in Raywall, who died 16th December 1781 age 4 years 
Also Mary KERR, who died July 1783 age 5 years 
Also Janet IRVING, spouse to John KERR, who died 17th April 1806 age 57 years 
Also Dr. Thomas KERR, son to John KERR, who died in Jamaica 12th August 1803 age 22 years 
Also David KERR, son to John KERR, who died in England 26th December 1807 age 18 years

Location:   St Mungo's Churchyard, Dumfriesshire
In Memory of  Archibald KERR, son of John KERR and Helen SCOTT in Houcleugh, he died 4th April 1852 age 3 weeks 

Sy,
in Dumfries
 

[janeli_1]

Hi,
I am gradually becoming more and more familiar with the border counties and the parishes where the various branches of my tree originate.

I believe I have made some false assumptions.    William Kerr and Phillis Bell were married in Lochmaben but she was from St Mungo.    I am convinced after much research which includes lots of help from you, Johnner, as well as other over the months.

William and Phillis are both buried in St Mungo as was their 16 year old son George in 1826.

I now believe  William was born in Dalton, with three distinct possibilities.   

Timeline:??

William Kerr born 1779 Dalton
William Kerr married Phillis Bell Lochmaben 1799
Children born 1801-1815 Todhillmuir, Lochmaben
Last child Thomas, born 1817, St Mungo.
son George dies 1826: Banksidegate
1841 census; William lived Bankside Yett, St Mungo.
1844: William dies at Broadmeadow, Hoddam.

Do you know where banksidegate is?  I have it in Roxburghshire but I don't think that makes sense. 

It would appear the family was rather nomadic.  Dalton to Lochmaben to St Mungo to Hoddam ...... would that be reasonable?

I think I need to disprove 2 of the 3 birth possibilities! 

Wm 1780, son of John Kerr and Margaret Esbie
Wm 1781, son of James Kerr and Mary Dobie
Wm 1779, son of John Kerr and Janet Geddes

I am liking the third choice. 

If you can tell me if the moving makes sense and where Banksidegate is, that would be helpful. 


Thanks heaps!!
Jan

[Johnner Kid]

Hi,
I am gradually becoming more and more familiar with the border counties and the parishes where the various branches of my tree originate.
Do you know where banksidegate is?  I have it in Roxburghshire but I don't think that makes sense. 
It would appear the family was rather nomadic.  Dalton to Lochmaben to St Mungo to Hoddam ...... would that be reasonable?
If you can tell me if the moving makes sense and where Banksidegate is, that would be helpful. 

Your family's movement between parish makes perfect sense.
The map below is a clip from the 1828 Crawford survey map of Dumfriesshire. 
[Note: no copyright infringment involved here – map is the property of DGFHS which, as a volunteer IT administrator,  I have complete access to it.]
St Mungo’s is central in the clip with the adjoining parishes mentioned above located all around it. 
Look to the right of the M of St Mungos and you find Bankside.  Banksidegate would be a sub-let of farmland from that larger Bankside estate. 
Movement of tenant farmers and their families between these parishes would have been fairly common as different land owners offered better terms.  Movement of farm labours could even occur yearly on a ‘term day’.  Distances are not great, Scotland is small compared with Canada.
(term = contract with farmer : term day = Martinmas - i.e. 11th November)
Hope that helps.

Sy

[janeli_1]

Thanks so much.  That does help!   I have no idea where I got the idea banksidegate was in Roxburgshire!
I have always been proud of my Scottish heritage, and I enjoy history in general so I very much appreciate you helping me to understand how things were in early 1800's.   My ancestors come from all of the border counties so every bit I learn about the area is beneficial. 
Thanks heaps! 
Jan

[Johnner Kid]

Happy to help at any time where I can .
Just one small additional bit of clarification incase you don't already know it.
Bankside Yet and Banksidegate refer to the same location  -- YET being the Scots word for GATE.

Sy

[Johnner Kid]

I enjoy history in general so I very much appreciate you helping me to understand how things were in early 1800's.   My ancestors come from all of the border counties so every bit I learn about the area is beneficial. 
Jan

If you would like to learn more of the historic picture of the Borders areas that interests you I recommend you read the OLD & NEW Statistical Accounts written by the ministers of the various parishes.
http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk/sas/sas.asp?action=public&passback=
will take you a site created by Edinburgh University listing all the Scottish Parishes.
Enter St Mungo's for example and you are offered two accounts, the OLD covers the period 1791-99 & NEW covers 1834-45.  The use of the long S in the text, which looks like a lower case F but isn't, can be a bit confusing but you get used to it.
Good Luck with your research.

Sy

 

[janeli_1]

Hi,
Thanks for the link.  If I can get comfortable with the 'f'/'s', I may find the handwritten documents on scotlandspeople easier to decipher.    I will spend some time working through these but will likely start with a lot of skimming.

I am realizing now how important it is to be able see tombstones.   We have many locally that I can see in person or online. 

My William is buried in St Mungo with some of his children.  I am wondering if you might be able to find tombstones that would eliminate a couple of Williams.

You found the tombstone of John Kerr and Jannet Geddes.  Their son William wasn't on that tombstone so no proof.

John Kerr 1731-1815, age 84 and Margaret Esbie 1739-1820 (Pleacairn), age 81, had a son William born May 3 1780 Dalton.  It would be great if he appears on their headstone. 

James Kerr 1752 Tynron and Mary Dob(b)ie 1754 Dumfries had a son William born 1781.   It would be great if he also were on the parent headstone.

I realize that many young men and families left Scotland for Canada, New Zealand or Australia in the the early 1800's so if they don't appear it doesn't prove anything.   But, if I am really lucky, they are buried with parents.

No hurry.  I have lots to keep me busy. 

You are right about Scotland being small compared to Canada.     Two Kerr cousins who live in England were in Southern Ontario this summer.  They thought the cousins lived close together ...... to us 6 hour drive is close.  I expect it is the same idea in reverse for Canadians trying to picture Great Britain. 

Thanks for all you have contributed to my passion fro genealogy!

Jan
 


 

[Jamjar]

I was just looking at NSW BDMs and there isn't a death for a Mary Kerr, in 1865, or am I confused?


May I ask where you got the death year?

Silliy I.  Just realised that you didn't mention NSW. However, I'd still like to know how you have the year, without a first name, please.

Jamjar