Grey Horse Inn, Friars Vennel, Dumfries

[alasdair_13]

Looking for anybody with any knowlegde or information about the Grey Horse Inn/Hotel in Friars Vennel in Dumfries. The limit of my knowledge is that it was in the upper part of the vennel backing on to the site of the old Greyfriars monastry.

My family link is through the hotelkeepers - the Irvines. I'd be particularly delighted to know if there was any way of finding out if the Irvines actually owned the hotel, and secondly , if there is any evidence it was bought for them by a lady called Johanna Mounsey Gordon - probably around 1830-40 or so.

Thanks.

[Jamjar]

It would be useful if you would provide all the information that you have posted on the Ancestry board.

Jamjar

[Jamjar]

Could it actually be Bay Horse Inn? 

http://users.quista.net/jameswilliams/DfsMax_Pigot1837_38Streets.htm

Jamjar

[Jamjar]

 Bay Horse, Jno Muirhead, 97 Friar's Vennel

Jamjar

[Jamjar]

There was a John Irving in the Bunch of Grapes on Whitsands.

Jamjar

[Jamjar]

I've just been reading your other postings including the following, which I assume is yours:

http://freshwordswriter.wordpress.com/2010/10/20/searching-for-johanna/

As Rootschatters get very excited about a new challenge and spend a lot of time searching records, etc, it is always best to give us all the information you already have.

So, if you don't want to do a massive re-type, you may like to put up links of all that you have listed elsewhere.


Jamjar

[Johnner Kid]

Could it actually be Bay Horse Inn? 
Jamjar

Yes, Jamjar was spot on !
There once was a Bay Horse Inn at Friars Vennel. 
I had a look at the Dumfries and Maxwelltown Trades Directories while in the DGFHS Research Centre today.   Lists various proprietors over the years -- didn't see an IRVINE or IRVING.
Today in Stranraer they still have a Bay Horse Inn.

Sy

[alasdair_13]

Thanks very much - and also apologies if I've not followed protocol with this post. I can say without any reservation that the people who populate these forums have been both exceptionally kind and helpful as I stumble through my ancestry.

Anyway, The Grey Horse Inn. I'm pretty sure it is this and not the Bay Horse. I've delved deeper into the children of Mary Walker and David Irvine/Irving (see the story thru the link kindly inserted by JamJar) by tracking down marriage certs where they exist. It seems at least three of them were married at the "Grey horse Inn" The writing is pretty bad but Bay it certainly isn't.

The query really is about proprietorship of this Inn, and if it is possible to establish that, given it looks likely that the Irvine's were at least landlords there for their daughters to get married there.

If not then it'll just have to remain a family legend after all...

[MonicaL]

Hi Alasdair

Sounds like you are well researched given what I have read on the links put up by Jamjar   

Have you followed through on addresses and occupations for David Irving? His occupation shows as a hatter from 1841 to 1851, living at Friars Vennel. The 1861 census is the first where he shows an occupation that could be linked to an inn. For that year he shows as a spirit dealer at 44 Irish Street.

So, potentially, you have an approx. 10 year window for the Irvings to be involved in an inn, from 1854 (and the death of Johanna Mounsey Gordon's death) to 1865 (and Mary and David's deaths).

In which weddings did the Grey Horse Inn show on the certificates? Was this the Irving brides' usual residence on the certificate? What occupation did David's children give for him on their marriage registrations?

From 1861, for background only regarding the daughters/son:
David Irving 52, Spirit Dealer b. Dumfries
Mary Irving   50 b. Troqueer, Kirkcudbrightsh
Jane Irving 27
Mary Ann Irving 23
Alison Irving 18
Elizabeth Irving 16
David Irving 12
Mary Irving 7
Jane Law 6, visitor
Address: 44 Irish St, Dumfries

Monica