Cecil Duffy - Army/RIC

[corisande]

Cecil DUFFY
Left UK 15 August 1922 on SS DIOGENES   
destination: Melbourne, Australia    
Age:    32
Marital status:    Married
Occupation:    Clerk
The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage:
   Miss Amy DUFFY    
   Betty F DUFFY

Mark I thought you had done some research 

[markdrogers99]

Apologies if my previous post was not clearer.. I have cited (and have a copy) his emmigration ship record where he indicated his last permanent country was Ireland. Unfortunately it does not indicate country of birth - which as you know is the mystery.

In reference to your suggestions;
1. I have only search the Victorian Records for birth - going to check NSW and see any joy
2. As mentioned above I have his record of going to Australia in 1922 though nothing else
3. Will look to repost on the RIC forum for additional research
4. As above
5. The UK MOD has his file still (they only hold for Officers who were discharged after 1922). I think he was commissioned elsewhere from 1920-1922 when he emigrated. I think the RIC because of a Cecil Duffy with same DOB and secondly he gave his last permanent country as Ireland on Ship records to Australia.  Funny thing I am starting to believe he could have been intelligence (he was stationed at the Australian Mission on Berlin during WW2??)
6. Have been onto MOD just now who said they might be able to fast track (hmmm maybe 11mths wait lol)
7. Have all his citations from London Gazzette - last once being 1919 - promotion to Captain of Royal Welch Fus.  Will search again for anything from 1919-1922.
8. I have his medals card - and also a subscription member of Anestry.co.uk.

Just so you know I am Australian and  moved to Europe (Dublin) five years ago so would be very keen to unravel this mystery before heading back home to Sydney in a couple of years :-)

Thanks so much for your continued help.

Mark

[corisande]

Mark

If you are in Dublin, cut out the middle man and go round to the Guards Museum in Dublin Castle. Best phone first, details on wen. They have the big original registers of RIC.

Take as many details as you can for them to give you help on looking up the books. I think you can get a copy in NLI, ask them too, that is on fiche

The problem with anyone in Intelligence is that much of their details were pulled. But if he were in Intelligence it would be odds on that he were in ADRIC rather than RIC, if he was actually still in army in 1922 - but with my caveat on half pay list.

My opinion is that he is more likely to have joined ADRIC as the pay was good, and he does not appear to have had any prior police experience.

You need to peg away to find his discharge

[corisande]

2nd Lt. Cecil Duffy, R. Welsh Fus., attd.
26th Bn.
For conspicuous gallantry and leadership.
On 16th October, 1918, near Wez Macquart,
he was in command of a strong fighting
.patrol, advancing well- in front of the remainder
of his1 company. On gaining the
first objective1 he reorganised and pushed on
very quickly to the second objective under
heavy M.-G-. fire. He then led a party forward,
and by energetic covering fire kept the
enemy sufficiently engaged to enable his
patrol to push on. By his personal efforts and
example he inspired all ranks, and did much
towards, hastening the retreat of the enemy.


31st July 1919. To unemployed list 2nd Lt. C. Duffy.

2nd Lt. C. Duffy, M.C., retires,
receiving a gratuity. 22nd Aug. 1919.

That means he was no longer serving in the Colours. Where did you get his new army number from?

[markdrogers99]

I requested a paid search from the UK National Archives where they indicated his file had not been transferred to them because he had a P/ number listed beside his long service number.

Extract of letter from UK National Archives below;

'Thank you for your search of 29 July 2011 regarding First World War Army Service of 2nd Lieutenant Cecil Duffy, M.C. of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers who was a commissioned from the 8th Hussars in March 1918.

I began by searching the following document held in our record series WO 338 (War Office: Officers' Services, First World War, Index to Long Number Papers 1870-1922), which is available on DocumentsOnline and can be accessed through www.nationalarchives.gov.uk.

W0 338/6   Index to Lond Number Papers: D

I found an entry for a 2nd Lieutenant Cecil Duffy, M.C. of the 3rd Battalion of the 23rd Regiment, i.e. Royal Welsh Fusiliers. The entry records that his long (service) number was 249234. Unfortunately a P number, P/59811, is also recorded, which indicates that his record is one of those still held by the ministry of defence in glasgow. You should contact them with the P number  for a copy of his full service record.'

[corisande]

Thanks

I will make some inquiries as to why anyone thinks he got this P number

[markdrogers99]

Just received the following from the Curator of the Police Museum in NI;

Name: Cecil Duffy
Rank: Constable
Number: 70998
Religion: Prost.
DOB: 19.4.1888
Date of Appointment: 6.4.1920
Native County: Cornwall/Australia
Recommended by: Major Flemming, District Inspector
Trade Calling: Ex-Soldier
Date of Discharge: Disbanded 7.3.1922 at Gormanstown with compensation allowance of £54.12.0pa

Cecil Duffy appears to have been a member of the 'Black and Tans' and recruited by Major Fleming, who acted as a recruiting officer for the RIC in England.  What is puzzling about the record is that as an ex-army officer, one would expect Cecil Duffy to have joined the RIC Auxiliary Division which was composed exclusively of ex-officers, and indeed Major Fleming was chiefly concerned with officer recruiting for this formation. However Cecil appears on the on the other ranks general list, and is not listed on the nominal roll of the Auxiliary Division.
 
No places of service are given, but I note that he was disbanded like regular RIC and 'Black and Tans,' in contrast with the officer cadets in the Auxiliary Division who were on short-term contracts.  I also note that he was disbanded from the RIC's sub-depot at Gormanston outside Dublin which handled most of the training for the 'Black and Tans' and Auxiliaries, so I would guess that he may have been employed as say a specialist instructor or the like.

[corisande]

Cecil Duffy appears to have been a member of the 'Black and Tans' and recruited by Major Fleming, who acted as a recruiting officer for the RIC in England.  What is puzzling about the record is that as an ex-army officer, one would expect Cecil Duffy to have joined the RIC Auxiliary Division which was composed exclusively of ex-officers, and indeed Major Fleming was chiefly concerned with officer recruiting for this formation. However Cecil appears on the on the other ranks general list, and is not listed on the nominal roll of the Auxiliary Division.

Yes that is what I said too. For a kick of he would have earned a lot more in ADRIC. Several times the allowance of a Constable in RIC. He had the qualifications to join the ADRIC, ie he had been a commissioned officer.

Had he left the army in 1919 then there would be no need for him to have a P number pertaining to post 1920 service.

I guess you will have to wait until you get his service record to get (perhaps) a fuller story

[markdrogers99]

Perhaps he was at lower level, for intelligence purposes, and on some form of assignment from the British Military... it's confusing why his record would still be with MOD if he was discharged well before 1922.   As you said will only know once I receive the service file - depending on what is disclosed.

thanks for all your help... very appreicated !!