Trait of Muckalee Kilkenny

[janeoz123]

Hi Kenneth,

How do you know that Edmund/Ned Byrne was Catherine Trait's fiance before their voyage?  That's interesting.
My older relative is the grand daughter of Richard Byrne, I think the youngest of the 12 children born to Catherine & Ned. I am trying to find out what happened to his siblings. It appears  a LOT of them died very young. My older relative is anxious to meet any Byrne relatives still alive.
Thanks.
Jane

[kenneth cooke]

Edmund Byrne married Catherine Trait on 1 July 1852. Their children were:
Mary 1853-1900, Patrick 1855, Thomas 1856-59, John 1857, Michael 58, Thomas b/d 60, Thomas 61-65, Martin 1861-1929, Catherine 63, James 65-76, Bridget b/d 67, Laurence b/d 68, Johanna 69-76.
Then I have "?Richard " so I assume I found him mentioned as one of the family but I can't recall finding his birth details. I'll have to check up on him again.

Mary married Emil Peter Nordström (Swedish) in 1887,
John mar. 1886 Bridget Gittings, daughter of a Eureka Stockade veteran, John Gittings or Gittins.
His brother Patrick was killed at Eureka, John lost an ear, and always wore his hair long.
Their eldest son, Edmund moved to New Zealand, followed by his fiancée. They married in NZ and had 14 children. The eldest one became a nun.
Martin mar. 1900 Ellen Slattery, daughter Kitty.
Catherine mar. John Butler

I have had contact with the NZ Byrnes and I have a photo of one of the Vic ladies.
I'll check up on Richard again. Do you know when he was born ?
Edmund was also a passenger on the Cambodia, and some of the Traits have said that they were engaged. It will be difficult to prove though.
Regards,
Ken
 

[janeoz123]

I found the birth of a Richard Byrne in 1871 n Warr. His parents are listed as Edmond Byrne and Catherine Tracey. I am just wondering if they spelt the mother's name wrong? Only way would be to get the birth certificate.
What does everyone else think? I found a few births of Catherine Tracey but only one marriage and that was in 1887  ..long after supposed birth of Richard.

[kenneth cooke]

The only burial in Ballarat of a Richard Byrne was on 31.5.1948 at the new cemetery, in the RSL section (returned soldiers). He was 79, so born in 1869. If he is ours, then he would have to be Johanna's twin. I vaguely recall a pair of twins, but I can't be certain.
Where did you find the birth in 1871 ? Perhaps they delayed registering it, but it's more likely that the age from the cemetery record is wrong. Catherine would have been 42 in 1871, so it's still possible. I'll have to check up further.

[janeoz123]

I found the birth record on my Vic BDM CD in the Pioneer Index.
As I said, the only way to know would be to order the certificate. My relative had Richard's death recorded in 1948 as does the probate & wills online at PROV.

[kenneth cooke]

The Pioneer and other BDM records are based on records at the registry office, so I would expect them to be the same as on the certificate you order, and today they are not cheap.
Sounds like they got the mother's surname wrong. I'll search through my notes and try to find the reference to 'Richard 1873'.

[janeoz123]

Thanks...that would be wonderful. I have to order the probate record as it is not digitised yet. I will ask my relative if she has her grandfather's birth ceritifcate or death certificate. That may speed things along! Thanks again for your prompt reply to to my query. It is very much appreciated.
Jane

[kenneth cooke]

I have now found the source of my note on the Byrne pedigree- "?Richard"
The reference to Richard comes from two letters from a relative Nellie Lyons, who was related to many of the Kilkenny families at Navigators, Ballarat.
In one letter Aug. 2000, "Spoke to Mick Butler recently and when I mentioned Joe, and we couldn't find a Richard Byrne, he's not so sure that it was Richard but thinks he read that in the death notice" Just as I found the death notice of Richard, but not his birth.
From another letter July 2000 "Spoke to my Dad's 2nd cousin- he'd heard of Byrnes from his Dad. Joe Byrne's real name was Richard- nicknamed Joe or Joey after the Joe Byrne mixed up with the Kelly gang. He was a wild fellow and the story goes he always carried a revolver."
There may be something in it as we have not found any Joseph.
And his brother Martin was known as 'Skiddy' called after a well known brewer and philanthropist from the 16th century in Cork.

I had thought that Joe might have been John b.1857 (John is sometimes shortened to 'Jo') but it seems that he is a different person. I have known cases where a child is not registered (my grandfather) and the baptism record is not available.
So, we know that your friend's grandfather was Richard but so far we have no proof of his parents' names. Perhaps we should look for the birth or baptism of a Joseph Byrne.

[janeoz123]

i had a quick look on the Pioneer Index for a Joe/Joseph Byrne with appropriately named paremts ..but came up empty.

I also found a WW1 service record for a Richard Byrne whose age would fit with the one I found with the wrong mother's name. looks like I may have to get those certificates to clear things up!