Author Topic: Baird & Boardman in Poyntzpass  (Read 3502 times)

Offline jcmac

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Baird & Boardman in Poyntzpass
« on: Saturday 22 October 11 13:48 BST (UK) »
My query originates in the Lanarkshire board under "Can't find family in 1851 cencus" and concerns George Baird and his family who are "missing".
A chatter has suggested trying the Down (and Armagh) boards and my initial view was that nothing would be available for 1851. This morning I looked over some of my wife's papers and came across details from 2008 which listed various substitute records so hence my post.
George Baird first appears in 1841 cencus age 20 born Ireland then in a later cencus as born Co.Down. In a later Poor Law record he is shown as from Poyntzpass but at present I can't lay my hands on that document.
His death aged 71 on 25.11.1891 in Glasgow records his parents as Robert Baird, Farmer and Jane Boardman, both deceased.
I have no record of his birth or any other details of parents or siblings.
Is he in Ireland in 1851 ? Can anyone locate details of his Irish connections ?
   

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Baird & Boardman in Poyntzpass
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 22 October 11 14:12 BST (UK) »
Griffiths Valuation has a record of a Christiana Baird in Poyntzpass in 1863. She was renting a house, yard and garden - plot 56(8) in Griffiths. A relation perhaps?

www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

The civil parish is Aghaderg. If you know the family’s religious denomination you might want to search parish records for births etc.
Elwyn

Offline jcmac

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Re: Baird & Boardman in Poyntzpass
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 22 October 11 15:00 BST (UK) »
Hello Elwyn,
Many thanks for your input.
Last night I tried to locate my paperwork for the Irish web sites I had looked at @2008 and earlier and this morning when I found most of it I realised why Ireland was so difficult !?!
I looked at a site last night that had transcriptions fron stones in Acton ? Church ? and another (possibly same) which had details of references to Co.Down people in various records - number of Bairds/Beards but no obvious links.     
Christina L. Baird is the name of his first child born 1846 Glasgow and who is not with the family in 1861 - she may have died. I doubt this will be her but it is a possible connection.
I assume from his marriage and children's birth records that George was Presbyterian. If that was the case can you suggest which church records in Down (or possibly Armagh) could be appropriate ?
jcmac

Offline kingskerswell

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Re: Baird & Boardman in Poyntzpass
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 22 October 11 15:23 BST (UK) »
Hi,
   This may help. 10 Sept 1857 Christiana Adamson married James Baird in Loughbrickland Presbyterian Church, parish of Aghaderg.

Regards
Stewart, Irwin, Morrison, Haslett, Murrell - Dungiven area Co. Londonderry
Browne, Barrett -Co.Armagh
Neil, Smyth _Co. Antrim


Offline jcmac

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Re: Baird & Boardman in Poyntzpass
« Reply #4 on: Friday 24 February 12 16:45 GMT (UK) »
Hello Elwyn and Kingskerswell,
I have looked at replies many times but didn't realise it was last October when you responded - sorry for not replying more quickly.
If I assume the Christine Baird of 1863 is the same Christine Adamson of 1857 then I could assume James Baird might be related to George Baird - perhaps a (younger) brother or cousin ??
Would you know if the Loughbrickland Pres.Ch. marriage records have details of "connections" in the entries ?
Would you know where these Church records or copies could be viewed ?
Based on the "assumption" above can you suggest any other lines of enquiry which might assist ?
Many thanks,
jcmac   

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Baird & Boardman in Poyntzpass
« Reply #5 on: Friday 24 February 12 17:11 GMT (UK) »
Would you know if the Loughbrickland Pres.Ch. marriage records have details of "connections" in the entries ?
Would you know where these Church records or copies could be viewed ?

PRONI, Belfast have microfilmed copies of Loughbrickland Presbyterian Church records which start in 1842-
http://www.presbyterianireland.org/about/records.html#l
If you can't get to Belfast then check LDS online catalogue at www.familysearch.org to see if they also have the microfilm- if so, you should be able to order it from your local LDS library for a small fee to be viewed there.

Not sure what you mean by this bit- details of "connections" in the entries ?
After the start of civil registration there was a set format for entries- see here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html
Before 1845 there is usually less information- sometimes just date of marriage, bride, groom and names of 2 witnesses.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Baird & Boardman in Poyntzpass
« Reply #6 on: Friday 24 February 12 17:17 GMT (UK) »

Would you know if the Loughbrickland Pres.Ch. marriage records have details of "connections" in the entries ?

Based on the "assumption" above can you suggest any other lines of enquiry which might assist ?
  

What you normally get for a baptism at that time are the parents names and townland, the child’s name, baptismal date and sometimes it’s birth date too. For marriages post 1845 it’s what you see on a conventional marriage certificate. Prior to that it’s more limited eg the couples names and the 2 witnesses.

There’s no routine cross referencing of births and marriages in church records. Occasionally a Minister will create a list of families and all their members within his congregation, often in connection with whether they are communicants, but finding those sorts of records is the exception rather than the norm.

Griffiths lists the head of household (usually the leaseholder). In general when a woman is listed, she tends to be a widow, or it’s a household only of women. You can check how long Christiana/Christina lived at house 56.8 by looking up the revaluation books in PRONI. (These books were used by the valuation clerks to note improvements and deterioration of property, and also for changes of tenants and landlords. They cover the period from the first valuation - in this case 1863- through to about 1930.) The series you need is for the electoral area covering Poyntzpass, which is Scarva. These are kept in PRONI series VAL12B. You’ll need to look Scarva up in the PRONI catalogue to get the full reference number. You then order up the books from their archive.
Elwyn

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Baird & Boardman in Poyntzpass
« Reply #7 on: Friday 24 February 12 17:23 GMT (UK) »
What you normally get for a baptism at that time are the parents names and townland, the child’s name, baptismal date and sometimes it’s birth date too. For marriages post 1845 it’s what you see on a conventional marriage certificate. Prior to that it’s more limited eg the couples names and the 2 witnesses.

I would add that it's not uncommon to find early baptisms include only date of baptism, name of child and father's name/townland. Sometimes the mother's name (maybe only Christian name) will be added but the townland not included.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline jcmac

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Re: Baird & Boardman in Poyntzpass
« Reply #8 on: Friday 24 February 12 18:05 GMT (UK) »
Thanks aghadowey and elwyn for these replies.
I find the Ireland records rather confusing but what I was thinking was that the Church record of the marriage may contain details of parents (if before statutory registration).
If George and James were related it would help to widen the family search.
My last contact with LDS centre was disappointing and I would be reluctant to try them again.
I will keep in mind the other possible sources you mention.
Thanks,
jcmac