Author Topic: Filling the Gap  (Read 9654 times)

Offline Roy G

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Filling the Gap
« on: Sunday 06 November 11 20:29 GMT (UK) »
A book about the life, Eliza(beth) Haryett, born in Brighton in 1823, says she spent her youth (c1828-c1838) in Great Yarmouth.  By 1839 she had run away with a Jockey (Jem Mason) and was living in London.  Her parents (Joseph and Elizabeth Haryett, also born Brighton 1804) are believed to have remained in the area and actually turn up on the 1861 census in High Street (Road?) Mutford, Gorleston, Suffolk.  They are listed as Joseph Hargett decorator of Brighton and wife Elizabeth.   RG9/1189/140

I am trying to find the parents in that area on the 1841 & 1851 censuses but I believe they may have been incorrectly indexed or used false names.  I have found no evidence of them ever changing their first names or Brighton as a place of birth, so wonder if there is any possibility of tracing them with such limited information?   Roy G

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 15:34 GMT (UK) »
Noticed a tree (yours, perhaps?) on Ancestry showing the illustrious career of Elizabeth jnr - what a fascinating story she would have had to tell!

Will post on here if I can find anything useful for you.

Regards,
GS
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Roy G

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 17:48 GMT (UK) »
Thanks GS, I know the tree, but it's not mine. 
The problem is that Eliza was a successful working class groupie who mingled with the aristocracy and was free with her favours.  During her rise from mistress to Countess she created a false past and many historians have been suckered into retelling her story as she told it.  I'm after the truth, especially as she appears to have had a second child (perhaps by Napoleon III) who gets baptised in 1847, and then disappears from the records.  That's why I would like to find her parents in 1851, for it is my belief that they returned from Suffolk to Brighton falsely proclaiming the child was theirs and left again.  They were not new to this practice because four years earlier they pretended Eliza's first child was theirs.   Roy G

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 19:29 GMT (UK) »
What a wonderful story - already I am hooked!  I will go off and search with renewed vigour  ;D
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 19:34 GMT (UK) »
What was the name of the second child, Roy, and where was it baptised?  The more info I have, the more likely it is that I might find something of use.
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 19:58 GMT (UK) »
I am assuming that Martin Constantin Haryett (Comte de Bechavet) was not the son of Clarence Trelawney, as Martin was born in 1842 and Elizabeth married Clarence in 1854.  Hmm, wonder who Martin  was living with in 1851....?
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Roy G

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 20:51 GMT (UK) »
The first son Martin, was a child of Major Mountjoy Martyn who was already married.  His baptism at Holy Trinity  Marylebone, was 27 Sept 1842 and birth date stated at that baptism was 16 Aug 1842.  The nearest equivalent was a Martin Mountjoy born in the Strand in 1839, but I am sure the vicar could destinguish a month old child to one aged 3 years.   Martin and his mother joined Napoleon III in France prior to 1851 and he grew up there to become Martin Constantine Haryett, the Earl of Bechevet.

Even though his grandparents  (Joseph & Elizabeth Haryett of Brighton) lived in Suffolk and had their last child 20 years earlier, a second child, William Alderton Haryett was still baptised as their son in Brighton in 1847.  William also had no known birth registration and like his grandparents, fails to appear on the 1851 census.  I would like to say the grandparents and William also moved to France to join their daughter in her Chateau in Versailles, but as the 1861 census verifies, the grandfather remained a decorator, listed as Joseph Hargett of Brighton and wife Elizabeth living at High Street (Road?) Mutford, Gorleston, Suffolk.   RG9/1189/140.   The grandfather came into wealth after his daughter's death in 1865, returning to Brighton where he reappeared not as a tradesman, but listed amongst the town's gentry.

Roy G

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 21:53 GMT (UK) »
I saw the baptism record of Martin  online, Roy.  I see Joseph is shown as a plumber and their address is given as Upper Fitzroy Street.  Do you have any idea where that street is?  I was wondering who was living there in the 1841 census.
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Roy G

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 22:53 GMT (UK) »
Internet lists Upper Fitzroy Street in the St Pancras distict of London (1841 census ref  HO 107/686  book 9  folios 31-32 ).  Now need someone with access to the 1841 census who is willing to trawl the folios above for a Joseph & Elizabeth, aged 35-40 not born in this county, or an Eliza(beth) or Harriet aged 18 also not born in this county  (n.b. Elizabeth took the stage name Harriet Howard)  Roy G