Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2

[ard]

WOW the years that this thread has been going from it's first to second incarnation. Lodger your name has appeared throughout, you are a real tour de force - may I extend my most gracious thanks for all the help you have given me and other, and thank you too to all other other kind souls as well.

Just had a wee peek at the old tree and wonder about some of my "tentative links".

Back as far as I can go with some certainty, my gggg grandmother Margaret Williamson, daughter of john Williamson and Agnes Carmichael (or Campbell depending on the source) She was married to Robert Halliday, a coalminer.

Cambusnethan Deaths (#40)
Halliday, Margaret, Widow of a Coalminer
1859 February 28 11:30 pm in Chapel (Lanark) 80 yrs
father: John Williamson, Shepherd (deceased)
mother: Agnes Williamson ( maiden name Campbell) (deceased)
cause: general debility several years
certified by James Livingstone, physician Wishaw who saw deceased 28 Feb 1857
Buried Carluke Cemetery cetified by...
(informant) Elizabeth Halliday, her mark X, daughter in law present

I am curious about the Hallidays because I am pretty sure of a connection with another family that I can't find proof of!

My ggg grandfather John's father (b. at Crawford) was Robert Halliday (who was married to Margaret Williamson). I only know of two sibilings: Agnes and Violet, but I expect there must have been more.

-HOLIDAY, John   Christening   Gender:   Male   Birth Date:   1 Sep 1804   
   Christening Date:   24 Dec 1804   Recorded in:   Crawford, Lanarkshire, Scotland
   Father:   Robert HOLIDAY
   Mother:   Margret WILLIAMSON
Source:   FHL Film 1066586   Dates:   1698 - 1855

In the same family would be (IGI): batch C116352
-Agnes HOLIDAY   Christening:  24 MAR 1806   Crawford, Lanark, Scotland
  Father:  ROBERT HOLIDAY
  Mother:  MARGRET WILLIAMSON 

-Carluke OPR 13/08/1839
Violet daughter to Robert Halliday and Margaret Williamson, Chapel, Cambusnethan buried August 13 1839 aged 21 years, consumption.

I firmly believe that Robert Halliday was closely related to Archibald Halliday (m. Marion Penman) as the two families seem somewhat intertwined in the various census records in the 19C. But I have no proof what the relationship was: siblings? cousins?

Robert was born out of Lanark county.

The best candidate I could find that would link Archibald and Robert (given other knowns are:

Father:    THOMAS HALIDAY  Mother:  ANNE CAMPBELL
 IGI batch 7417621 ARCHIBALD  HALIDAY  Christening:  01 OCT 1786  Killin, Perth, Scotland

 IGI batch 7417622 ROBERT HALIDAY  Christening:     01 APR 1781      Killin, Perth, Scotland


Both families had members buried at carluke and lived side by side in Wishaw.

OPR deaths 62900 355 Carluke
Archibald Halliday Husband of Marion Penman Crossford (?) buried Oct 27th1840, aged 54 years

(a possibility for Robert but Marion is not Margaret and Hallowday..?)
OPR deaths Carluke
1851 Robert Hallowday husband of Marion Williamson buried 4th March aged 69 years

My ggg grandparents John Halliday and Elizabeth Blair Dick, their daughter Agnes (the only one I can't find a birth record for ) was my gg grandmother, born between 1841-1843)

I am not 100% sure that this in my John Halliday but it seems likely:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~miningvillages/1853deaths.html

May 5 1853 Name of Colliery: Drumpellar Near where situated: Coatbridge Owners name: Trustees of late John Wilson
Person killed: John Halliday cause of death: Fall of stone in road

Clearly life as a miner was often cut short.

(David son of John Halliday)
Cambusnethan deaths # 208
Halliday David Coalminer single
1857 November 28 8:45 am in "Bush"(I was told that for Bush" you may see on maps as "Tarbush" or "Tarbrush" or the older form "Tarbrax".)
age 27
years father John Halliday, coalminer (deceased)mother Elizabeth Halliday (maiden name Dick)
severe internal injuries resulting from explosion of fire damp in coal pit
buried Carluke Churchyard Elizabeth Halliday Her mark X, present

their last son, James:
Cambusnethan deaths 1858  # 49
1858 February 26th 1:10 pm (?) 6 yrs
father John Halliday Coalminer (deceased)mother Elizabeth Halliday maiden name Dick
cause: Hydrocephalus ~ six days ~ certified by Robert Livingstone Physician Wishaw who saw the deceased the 26th of Feb.buried Carluke Cemetery
informant Elizabeth Halliday her mark X mother present

What I am really hoping to find is parents of Robert and or Archibald and something more definitive identifying the relationship between the two! and to be able to then figure out who Robert's parents might have been!

Thank you for your patience if you made it to the end 

ard

[Lodger]

Hello Ard, welcome back to the Cambusnethan grave search! And, Happy New Year to you.

It's difficult to know where to begin as I don't know what information you have already.

first of all, Bush was an area in Wishaw, on the modern maps it is situated on that part of Stewarton Street where it meets Greenhead Road. Bush Cottages were on the corner. It may be possible to see them on old maps.

The baptism records for the Wishaw Relief Church. There are several entries for your Hallidays.

JOHN, 8th child of John Halliday, miner, Chapel and Elizabeth Dick his wife.
Born 10th July 1847 & baptised 8th August 1847 by Rev Peter Brown.
(No mention of the previous 7 children).

JAMES, 9th child of John Halliday, miner, Chapel and Elizabeth Dick his wife.
Born 13th April 1852, baptised 28th May 1852 by Rev Peter Brown.
Note in margin - Died 27th February 1858.

Still with the Relief Church baptisms.
The following Marion Halliday was the daughter of Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
JAMES, 1st child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Cambusnethan Kirk and Marion Halliday.
Born 27th October 1838, baptised 13th January 1839 by Rev P Brown.

MARION, 2nd child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Cambusnethan Kirk and Marion Halliday.
Born 4th October 1840, baptised 25th October 1840 by Rev P Brown.

ELIZABETH, 3rd child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Cambusnethan Kirk and Marion Halliday.
Born 8th May 1842. (no other information given).

JANET, 4th child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Cambusnethan Kirk and Marion Halliday.
Born 5th February 1844, baptised 10th March 1844 by Rev P Brown.

CHRISTINA, 5th child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Overtown and Marion Halliday.
Born 10th April 1846, baptised 3rd May 1846 by Rev P Brown.

AGNES, 6th child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Overtown and Marion Halliday.
Born 22nd February 1848, baptised 20th March 1848 by Rev P Brown.

MARY, 7th child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Cambusnethan Kirk and Marion Halliday.
Born 24th March 1850, baptised 21st April 1850 by Rev P Brown.

The following Margaret Halliday was the daughter of John Halliday & Elizabeth Blair Dick.
ELIZABETH BLAIR DICK LITTLEJOHN, 2nd child of David Littlejohn, miner, Bush and Margaret Halliday.
Born 5th January 1855, baptised 21st January 1855 by Rev P Brown.

JOHN HALLIDAY LITTLEJOHN, 3rd child of David Littlejohn, miner, Bush Cottage & Margaret Halliday.
Born 10th June 1857, baptised 5th July 1857 by Rev P Brown.

WILLIAM, 4th child of David Littlejohn, miner, Bush cottages Stewarton & Margaret Halliday.
Born 7th October 1860, baptised 4th November 1860 by Rev P Brown.

There are also baptisms for children of George Gold & Mary Halliday residing at Cambusnethan Kirk and for Alexander Hamilton & Agnes Halliday residing at Chapel. I suspect that Mary and Agnes could be siblings of Margaret and Marion Halliday.

Finally, for the moment, I'll leave you with a picture of the Reverend Peter Brown.
Burial records to follow after I've had a bit of lunch.

[ard]

On the right track! You are truly a generous soul! It might be easier for me to tell you what I do have but I will say right off that I didn't have the actual birth dates (mostly gleaned from census calculations) of the children of John Halliday and Elizabeth Blair Dick! So thank you very much for the birth-baptismal info of James and John.

What was the Wishaw Relief church (my mind can't help asking: relief from what?!)

I must be missing the name of at least two children, if John was the 8th because by my records he is the 6th of 7. No doubt a few of the children died very young.

The children's names that I do have with estimated birth and death years:
David (1830-1857) buried Carluke.
Margaret (m. David Littlejohn) b.1832 d.1911)
Elizabeth b. 1839 d? early?
Agnes (my ggg grandmother m.James Leggat) b.1842 d.1906 Whitehaven, Cumberland
Robert (m. Mary Allan) b1845 d.1916
John (m. 1 Elizabeth McLennan 2. Elizabeth Anderson) b. 1848- d.1916
MAYBE another Elizabeth b 1851 but that is speculative.
James (1852-1858)

in 1841 my Hallidays were living at"Bogside and Chapel in Cambusnethan" I am not familiar with the area but could it be that they moved and changed churches (it to the Wishaw Relief church) after the first 7 children were born?

Of the children of John and Elizabeth Halliday, I DO have the burial info for: David, James, John and Robert.

I almost have more on the children of Archibald and Marion but, as I say I don't know if Archibald was the brother of Robert Halliday (father of my gggg grandfather John) or not! I do note that both Archibald and Robert named a child Violette which doesn't seem to crop up too often as a name.

I think John (b  about 1804 Crawford) and Elizabeth Blair Dick ( b. about 1807 Glasgow) according to 1851 census were married about 1830.

It is really interesting and confusing (but not surprising) how the families ties of so many of the miners are so intricately intertwined. Everyone seems to be related to someone, by marriage at least.

Thanks again for all your help lodger, across the boards.

ard

P.S. RE: "There are also baptisms for children of George Gold & Mary Halliday residing at Cambusnethan Kirk and for Alexander Hamilton & Agnes Halliday residing at Chapel. I suspect that Mary and Agnes could be siblings of Margaret and Marion Halliday."

Yes they are. The children I have for Marion and Archibald (b. between 1810 and 1835) are:
Janet; Agnes (Hamilton); Marion (Scott); Mary (Gold); Margaret (Gray); Thomas (m. Cassels); Isabella (Robb); Elizabeth (Muir); Grizzel (Stevenson); Robert (m. Patterson and Armstrong); John (m. Russell) & Violett (m. Brownlie)

[ard]

error... don't know how to delete this 

[ard]

  and this to delete as well, as it is a repeat of my post. I seem to be getting my buttons mixed up this morning! 
 

On the right track! You are truly a generous soul! It might be easier for me to tell you what I do have but I will say right off that I didn't have the actual birth dates (mostly gleaned from census calculations) of the children of John Halliday and Elizabeth Blair Dick! So thank you very much for the birth-baptismal info of James and John.

What was the Wishaw Relief church (my mind can't help asking: relief from what?!)

I must be missing the name of at least one child, if John was the 8th because by my records he is the 6th of 7. No doubt a few of the children died very young.

The children's names that I do have with estimated birth and death years:
David (1830-1857) buried Carluke.
Margaret (m. David Littlejohn) b.1832 d.1911)
Elizabeth b. 1839 d? early?
Agnes (my ggg grandmother m.James Leggat) b.1842 d.1906 Whitehaven, Cumberland
Robert (m. Mary Allan) b1845 d.1916
John (m. 1 Elizabeth McLennan 2. Elizabeth Anderson) b. 1848- d.1916
MAYBE another Elizabeth b 1851 but that is speculative.
James (1852-1858)

in 1841 my Hallidays were living at"Bogside and Chapel in Cambusnethan" I am not familiar with the area but could it be that they moved and changed churches (it to the Wishaw Relief church) after the first 7 children were born?


I DO have the burial info for:
David, James, John and Robert.

I almost have more on the children of Archibald and Marion but, as I say I don't know if Archibald was the brother of Robert Halliday (father of my gggg grandfather John) or not! I do note that both Archibald and Robert named a child Violette which doesn't seem to crop up too often as a name.

I think John (b  about 1804 Crawford) and Elizabeth Blair Dick ( b. about 1807 Glasgow) according to 1851 census were married about 1830.

It is really interesting and confusing (but not surprising) how the families ties of so many of the miners are so intricately intertwined. Everyone seems to be related to someone, by marriage at least.

Thanks again for all your help lodger, across the boards.

ard

[Lodger]

Hi Ard,

Lunch over, back to work!

The "Relief Church" was The Relief Congregation Church, it was a Secessionist church, one of the many that seceded from the main Presbyterian Church of Scotland at various times in the 18th and 19th centuries.  It was done, to begin with, because of the Patronage Act of 1711. A quote from Wikipedia -
"The Church Patronage (Scotland) Act 1711 or Patronage Act is an Act of the Parliament of Great Britain. The long title of the act is An Act to restore the Patrons to their ancient Rights of presenting Ministers to the Churches vacant in that Part of Great Britain called Scotland. Its purpose was to allow the noble and other Patrons in Scotland to gain control over the Church of Scotland parish churches again, having lost that custom in the so-called Glorious Revolution".

In other words, the local landowners were given the right to select the minister for the parish, even if it was someone highly unpopular with the parishioners. (Usually because he was too "highbrow" to suit the local folk).
Read more - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relief_Church

I think you are probably on the right track with Archibald and Robert, it does seem to be too much of a coincidence that they both named a daughter Violet. Even if you can't prove it yet, just store the information away until the time comes that you can.

Here's more.
There is an inscription for a tombstone in Cambusnethan old churchyard which may or may not still be readable, the transcript was taken about 35 years ago and the weather and vandals have taken their toll between times.
"Archibald Halliday died 16th January 1938 aged 75 years, husband of Christina Hamilton. His father John died 27th May 1877 aged 48 years. His mother Ann Russell died aged 58 years. His sister Maggie died in infancy. His sister Annie died 7th June 1862 aged 4 years. His sister Maggie died 12th May 1870 aged 16 years. His sister Marion died April 1899 aged 43 years (wife of George Inglis, their son Alexander died 13th May 1892 aged 1 year)".

It doesn't mention a date of death for Ann Russell but it may be her in the Plot Book with a burial date of 9th December 1888, aged 59 years.
Strangely, she is the only entry for this plot, the owner is listed as Archibald Halliday. I know it is the right plot as the names in the plots either side match with the ones in the Monumental Inscriptions book.

Some entries from the gravediggers Day Book for Cambusnethan -
MARGARET LITTLEJOHN, Wishaw, aged 79 years, widow.
Parents - John Halliday & Elizabeth Blair Dick.
Interred in the old churchyard on 15th May 1911.

MARION PATERSON LITTLEJOHN, Bush, aged 22 months.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 11th November 1865.

ELIZABETH B.D. LITTLEJOHN, Wishaw, aged 13 years.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 1st April 1868.

JAMES LITTLEJOHN, Wishaw, aged 20 months.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 9th February 1872.

JOHN HALLIDAY LITTLEJOHN, hostler, Wishaw, aged 18 years, unmarried.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 3rd August 1875.

JANET LITTLEJOHN, Wishaw, aged 10 months.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 7th August 1876.

ARCHIBALD LITTLEJOHN, coal miner, Wishaw, aged 18 years, unmarried.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 18th July 1868.

The Plot Book (which only dates from the late 1870s) for this plot gives the following interments -
(Plot was owned by Archibald Littlejohn and all surnames are Littlejohn, so I wont repeat them)
In the south lair -
MARGARET, aged 9 years. 1st April 1882.
WILLIAM, aged 22 years. 25th April 1883.
MARION, aged 73 years. 17th November 1886.
MARGARET W.H. aged 9 years. 15th March 1898.
in the north lair -
DAVID, aged 64 years. 16th January 1884.
MARGARET, aged 79 years. 15th May 1911.

There is a monumental inscription for this plot but it pre-dates all of the above names except Marion who died 1886. She must have been a sister to David. His mother was Marion Paterson who died 1868.

continued in the next post -- I've exceeded the limit!

[Lodger]

Back to the Day Book entries.

ISABELLA ROBB, housewife, Newmains, aged 42 years, married.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Old churchyard on 17th June 1862.

ROBERT HALLIDAY, miner, Waterloo, aged 46, married.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Old churchyard on 3rd September 1870.

JOHN HALLIDAY, engine cleaner, pauper, Newmains, aged 48 years, married.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Old churchyard on 29th May 1877.

THOMAS HALLIDAY, miner, Waterloo, aged 61 years, married.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Old churchyard on 21st February 1879.

ARCHIBALD HALLIDAY, coal miner, Law, aged 61 years, widower.
Parents - Thomas Halliday &  - - - - -  Cassells.
Old churchyard on 15th May 1907.

These last two must be father & son, they are in the same plot, it was owned by Thomas Halliday and according to the Plot Book it has the following occupants (all with the surname Halliday) -
In the south lair -
ARCHIBALD, aged 61 years. 15th May 1907.
In the centre lair -
MARION S. aged 55 years. 26th October 1905.
In the north lair -
THOMAS, aged 61 years. 21st February 1879.
Unknown Halliday, no age given. 28th May 1886. (probably a stillbirth).

Still with the Day Book, this time we've moved over to the new cemetery -

VIOLET BROWNLIE, housewife, Hartwood asylum, aged 73 years, married.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Plot B11 on 10th May 1907.

VIOLET BROWNLIE, Bonkle, aged 2 years.
Parents - George Brownlie & Violet Halliday.
Plot B11 on 5th July 1877.

Not too sure about the next 2 but just in case -
CATHERINE BROWNLIE, Wishaw, aged 19 months.
Parents - George Brownlie & Janet Halliday.
Old churchyard on 15th March 1873.

NEWBORN MALE BROWNLIE, 15 minutes.
Parents - George Brownlie & Janet Halliday.
Old churchyard on 27th March 1874.

New cemetery -
Plot D215

DAVID D. HALLIDAY, Wishaw, aged 3 years.
Parents - John Halliday & Elizabeth McLennan.
D215 on 4th July 1892.

ELIZABETH HALLIDAY, housewife, Wishaw, aged 47 years, married.
Parents - Donald McLennan & Catherine Fraser.
D215 on 5th June 1896.

ELIZABETH HALLIDAY, Wishaw, aged 2 years & 9 months.
Parents - John Halliday & Elizabeth Anderson.
D215 on 27th July 1900.

That's the old churchyard and the new cemetery taken care of. Now we're on to the "Walled Private Ground" which was a small, walled area owned by a private burial company but subsequently taken over by the municipal authorities. It dates from 1861 and fits between the old churchyard and the new cemetery (which also dates from 1861).

You'll remember this family from the Relief Church baptisms.
JAMES SCOTT, cashier, Cambusnethan, aged 23 years, unmarried.
Parents - Thomas Scott & Marion Halliday.
Private No.4 on 19th February 1862.

MARY SCOTT, Cambusnethan, aged 12 years.
Parents - Thomas Scott & Marion Halliday.
Private No.4 on 22nd March 1862.

MARION H. SCOTT, Hamilton, aged 87 years, widow.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Private No.4 on 11th September 1901.

ELIZABETH SCOTT, housewife, Hartwood Asylum, aged 68 years, unmarried.
Parents - Thomas Scott & Marion Halliday.
Private No.4 on 19th July 1910.

That's all I can find Ard, I've posted a picture of the Scott family stone (Private No.4) in the last post.

[Lodger]

Ard,

One more entry, this time from the Bonkle United Presbyterian Church register of Baptisms.

JANET, daughter of Thomas Halliday, miner, Bonkle and Jane Cassells.
Born 5th June 1851 and baptised 7th September 1851.

[Lodger]

Ard, I think I missed these entries -

MARY HALLIDAY, housewife, Overtown, aged 66 years, married.
Parents - William Allan & Jane Smith.
New cemetery C73 on 17th February 1914.

CATHERINE HALLIDAY, Wishaw, aged 2 months.
Parents - John Halliday & Elizabeth McLennan.
C73 on 17th February 1885.

ARCHIBALD ROBB, check-weighman, Morningside, aged 45 years, married.
Parents - James Robb & Isabella Halliday.
New cemetery D341 on 28th December 1891.

ANDREW ROBB, coal miner, Crindledyke, aged 57 years, married.
Parents - James Robb & Isabella Halliday.
New cemetery E2429 on 1st March 1915.
Plot owned by James Robb, coal miner, Brown's Land, Crindledyke.