Does anyone have any information on Francis KIFT 1854 Georgeham please..

[patval]

I didn't realise that full certs werent allowed, looks like I broke the rules... sorry....

'Our' Frank died in 1939 aged 84 that makes dob 1855... however his age fluctuated over the years... 1881 census aged 25 (dob 1856) at his marriage in 1888 he claimed to be 30 (dob 1858)... 1891 census aged 31 (1860), 1901 census aged 44 (dob 1857)...... so they all hover around 1855 - 1860.....

The 'other' Frank Kift has been a thorn in my side for many years...... oddly enough although I have asked for info for both Franks I have not had any contact from anyone closely related.....

'Our' Frank only had one daughter so we know there are no other family members descended from Frank but I am intrigued to know of other Kifts especially as we have a photo of a 'Roly' kift and his son John.. photo taken just after the war possibly 1945/46..... in Scunthorpe (daughter Annies family home).. its a family photo with my hubby on and his father.....?

The fact you found regarding Thomas being a soldier has got me looking for NDMA... impossible task... I would assume ND was North Devon, M perhaps Militia ?? but can find nothing......

One other thing puzzles me,  'our' Frank became a Mercantile Clerk within the Steelworks in Glasgow, seems strange for an laddie who at 16 was an agricultural labourer.... and why Scotland??? I can find no family there.....

I shall keep searching, thanks for your participation
Patricia

[Old Bristolian]

Patricia

I guess the NDMA indicates the North Devon Militia Regiment - I'll ask again at the NDRO next week. I'll also check the Braunton register if possible. Have you taken the line any further back? I wonder how all the Kift families were connected & whether it would help with Roly & John.

A move from North Devon to Glasgow does seem unusual, but I think our ancestors moved about much more than we sometimes think

Steve

[patval]

Hi Steve, very kind of you to offer to check up for me... much appreciated.

I know for certain that Thomas' father was  Samuel KIFT - farmer - as he is named on Thomas' marriage certificate, and that ties in with the 1861 census where we find Francis living with grandparents Samuel and Mary.... as to going back further I haven't researched as yet, only recently discovered the Thomas link..... looking on Ancestry.com there are a number of family trees for the Kift family and Thomas is there, oddly enough no-one has him married with Francis as his son.... one researcher does have Francis living with grandparents but has decided he is a girl....I don't take all I see on Ancestry as gospel, not all info is correct....

I notice you are researching Macdonald in Ross-shire... I am researching Macdonalds too, my earliest is Hugh Macdonald, town clerk in Dornoch and Sheriff Clerk of Sutherland until his death in 1756.... can't find parents for him though...... another brick wall....


Patricia..

[hanes teulu]

The Bristol Mercury July 27 1861
Marriages
July 22, at St Saviour's Church, Larkhall, Bath, by the Rev Dr Stamer, Mr William Williams, late of Northgate Street, to Mary Ann, widow of the late Mr Thomas Kift, of Northampton Street

regards

[patval]

That answers a lot of questions... many thanks, Mary had remarried in 1861 and that is why Francis (Frank) was living with grandparents at the time of the 1861 census... he obviously didn't go to live with his mother ..... and no Kift siblings for Francis either....

Also this now looks like the Bath death for thomas in 1857 found earlier by Old Bristolian is the correct Thomas....

I have come along in leaps and bounds.... Many Many thanks for everyones help...

Patricia

[Old Bristolian]

Sorry to be a bringer of bad news, but I'm afraid the Bath connection is a red herring. Thomas Kift was listed as a  publican in Northampton Street, Bath on the 1851 Census (aged 32), so this is a different family.

I'll keep looking in North Devon for more leads.

The MacDonalds are in my wife's line, coming from Dingwall - I've so far traced two of her lines back to two separate John M(a)cDonalds, who both married Miss Urquharts in the early years of the 19th century - english genealogy is much simpler!

Steve

[Old Bristolian]

Hi Patricia

I called into the NDRO today & had a look at the original of Francis' baptism - its exactly as it said in the trancript, but interestingly I found the baptism of the child of another soldier on the next page & it clearly reads "Soldier, NDM". I'm sure this means North Devon Militia & that Thomas would have been in the same regiment. There are a few books in the RO which mention the Militia at this time, but mostly give details of officers and training episodes. It looks like they stayed in the area for most of the period.

I also checked the Braunton register (transcripts & microfiche) & found Samuel's marriage:
Samuel Keift b x & Mary Coneybear sp x 11 March 1815. Banns. One of the witnesses is James Conybear x 
Also Samuel's burial - Samuel Keift 15 Jan 1868 aged 78.

I checked further til 1882, but couldn't find a burial for Mary, his wife. I also checked back to 1854, but there was no burial for either Thomas or Mary (Cullamore).

There was another Keift family around about the same time as Samuel - William (d1864 aged 78) & Jane - it could be they were brothers, but there were no more Kift/Keift entries earlier apart from a burial of a George "the younger" in 1809 & another George (d 1817 aged 82). This could possibly be Samuel & William's father & grandfather, but I obviously can't be sure without checking other parishes around.

I found the baptism of Thomas (7 Feb 1835) the youngest of Samuel's children - there were eight others - let me know if you would like details. I also found a possible baptism for Mary Conybear - 22 Oct 1786, daughter of George & Mary (nee Tucker - marriage 3 Apr 1783). She had seven siblings - again let me know if you would like the details.

It still gives us little idea of what happened to Thomas & Mary (I haven't yet found a suitable baptism for her). They obviously married in a hurry ( less than two months before Francis' birth & in the neighbouring parish). From the baptism record it looks to me as if Thomas might have left already (abode unknown?) & possibly Mary with him. All very mysterious

Regards

Steve

[patval]

Hi Steve,

Don't worry too much about bringing disappointing news.... I'm getting used to the highs and lows of family research... in my case more lows than highs...

This is very kind of you, so much information too... apparently there are a number of Kift's in Wales who have moved there from Devon and I suppose there is always the possibility that Thomas and Mary moved abroad.... seems a bit heartless though leaving Francis behind....

So Thomas was the baby of the family, I would appreciate having his siblings names, I don't like putting you to any trouble though....

Thomas and Mary did leave it till late to be wed... he was probably a reluctant groom, but as both were recorded as being minors perhaps permission from parents wasn't forthcoming........ I noticed on their marriage cert that they were both resident in Morthoe at the time but Mary must have returned home to have Francis as he is recorded as being born in Georgham.... as you say... very mysterious...

Regarding your Macdonald line..I think John must have been as popular (or common) as Hugh... I always have credits on scotlandspeople as all my hubby's family hail from Scotland bar Frank... so if you require a search please don't hesitate to ask, I can then do you a favour..

Patricia

[Old Bristolian]

I will send a PM tomorrow with all the family details if thats OK. By the way, I think I can take the family back two generations. Samuel states in 1861 he was born in Fremington, and Familysearch have the records of a Samuel Kiefft bap 7 Oct 1792, son of George & Mary as well as a William ditto (24 Feb 1785), so it looks like the family moved to Braunton around 1800, George (born c 1760) dying in 1809, Mary in 1826 & George senior (born 1735) in 1817

Steve