SWEETMAN/CONNELL - Skibbereen

[ajf25]

Thanks for your input lamahorse,

Interesting that these same names come up again.

Richard's sister Martha married Freke (various spellings; Fricke, Fuke, Freak etc) Payne in Aghadown in 1855. 

I know the first Payne (John - my g grandfather, son of the above.  His father was son-in-law of William Connell/Jane Sweetman in my original post) to come to Australia in 1876, came, according to family lore, because of "political troubles". 

Alison 

[lamahorse]

I actually misread the source. Go to www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie and search for Patrick Sullivan.

The killing of these two farmers is also covered in Tom Creens Guerrilla Days in Ireland. It seems both Connell and Sweetman were active Loyalists too and considered the IRA to be little more than rebels. Their testimony led to four IRA men being convicted of extortion and smuggling arms.

Searching newspapers for Sweetman and Connell shows that they were keen coursers. Plenty of notices closing lands of Mohonagh, Barnagowlane, Lisennorig and Reenmurragha (Knockgurm).

[Sonas]

I actually misread the source. Go to www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie and search for Patrick Sullivan.

The killing of these two farmers is also covered in Tom Creens Guerrilla Days in Ireland. It seems both Connell and Sweetman were active Loyalists too and considered the IRA to be little more than rebels. Their testimony led to four IRA men being convicted of extortion and smuggling arms.

Searching newspapers for Sweetman and Connell shows that they were keen coursers. Plenty of notices closing lands of Mohonagh, Barnagowlane, Lisennorig and Reenmurragha (Knockgurm).

Tom Barry?

[ajf25]

Very interesting reading 

[negneu]

Matthew Sweetnam, 3rd natural son of Matthew Sweetnam and Elizabeth Connell married Elizabeth Ann Trinder at St Matthew's, Church of Ireland, Balleydehob. Matthew was a farmer of Morahin. They migrated to Victoria on the ship 'Delta' with their baby, Elisabeth Ann, in1852. This Elizabeth Ann was buried the same year in Richmond. Their next daughter was born in Ballarat in1853. Matthew apparently had a store at Maryborough, but was not successful. He later worked for  Connell and Clark as a Corn Factor, and then became a successful land speculator in Boroondara. One of his sons became a land agent, share broker and magistrate, (Sam), and another an estate agent, valuer and Boroondara Shire president. There were 6 daughters and 6 sons.
There seems to be some evidence that Matthew is descended from the Swetenhams of Somerford Booth (see LearySweetnam), and were Cromwell's men. However it was thought Sweetman Castle in Thomastown was in the family by my late mother.

[ajf25]

Thanks for your input negneu    You've filled in some blanks; now to prove the relationship 

Unfortunately the Leary Sweetnam web site doesn't have contact details.

Hopefully someone will come across this thread some day

Cheers,
Alison

[Rathmore02]

I'm a new -comer to RootsChat, so please cut me some slack if I get the protocol all wrong, or ask silly questions.
Like Alison, I’m a direct descendant of the Payne/Connell/Sweetman lineage, and I’m very keen to tease out all the drivers and blockers and resulted in them all making the move to Australia.  It seems that there are so many big forces at play here, including Irish separatism, Catholic/Protestant tensions, the America's independence and civil wars, English plantations, Australian gold, and Irish famine and cholera to name a few.
I’ve got a heap of questions, but a few to start with:

1. Alison referred to some of the Sweetmans emigrating on the Delta in 1852.  I’ve found a family of ‘Connel/Connett’ [sic] on that same voyage, including a James and Richard:  does anybody know if these are in fact the same Connell family?

2. I’ve seen a few references to John Payne (my GGrandfather) leaving Ireland in 1875 due to political troubles’:  does anybody have anything specific on this?  (I’m aware of the Sweetman/Connell murders, but that was 50 years later.

3. I’m intrigued by the Paynes adopting the ‘Freke’ name.  I’ve found one other family in the greater Skibbereen area with ‘Freke’ as a first name, but it doesn’t seem to be a very common practice, and its certainly quite a statement.  I also haven’t found any signs of marriages between the two families, but, then again, I have no records at all from the 18th century.

4. I also can’t find any record of John Payne (or his travelling companion, John Hegarty) travelling to Australia (the first time).  I have an unpublished family history that refers to him arriving on the ‘Barthenope’ [Sic], which I take to be the Parthenope, but PROV records do not show him as a passenger on its 1875 (maiden) voyage.  My guess is that he may have signed on as crew:  it seems that GGdad knew the value of a pound!  Again, anybody know anything of this?
Anyway, it would be great to make contact with anybody who can shine any light on any of this.  And I’m very happy to share whatever I know or suspect etc.

Cheers
Richard

[hallmark]

 Genealogy of Sweetnam family of Clehane/Cloghane, Caheragh, West Cork, arising from Marriage 1812 of Matthew Sweetnam (Murrahin) to Elizabeth Connell with descendants, USA, Canada, Australia, England, Northern Ireland compiled 1952 revised 1988.  Sweetnams of Kinsale 1676.


https://durrushistory.com/2014/09/02/genealogy-of-sweetnam-family-of-clehanecloghane-caheragh-wesr-cork-arising-from-marriage-1812-of-mathew-sweetnam-murrahin-to-elizabeth-connell-with-descendants-usa-canada-australia-england/

[ajf25]

Welcome to RootsChat Rathmore 02.
Like you, John Payne was my great grandfather

1. Alison referred to some of the Sweetmans emigrating on the Delta in 1852.  I’ve found a family of ‘Connel/Connett’ [sic] on that same voyage, including a James and Richard:  does anybody know if these are in fact the same Connell family?

James and Richard Connell are brothers, the sons of William Connell and Jane Sweetman. Richard married Emily Jane Morris. Mathew and Ann Sweetman were witnesses to their marriage. (mentioned earlier in the thread). I imagine these two are the two from the Delta.

2. I’ve seen a few references to John Payne (my GGrandfather) leaving Ireland in 1875 due to political troubles’:  does anybody have anything specific on this?  (I’m aware of the Sweetman/Connell murders, but that was 50 years later.

My mother, John's granddaughter always said that one of the main reasons that John left Ireland was because of the political troubles. He was a devoted Protestant and the unrest due to the precursor IRA movement made life difficult in the region.

3. I’m intrigued by the Paynes adopting the ‘Freke’ name.  I’ve found one other family in the greater Skibbereen area with ‘Freke’ as a first name, but it doesn’t seem to be a very common practice, and its certainly quite a statement.  I also haven’t found any signs of marriages between the two families, but, then again, I have no records at all from the 18th century.

I find this very intriguing too. Previously in this thread, there has been discussion of possible links to the Carbery family. I am no closer to knowing the truth though.

4. I also can’t find any record of John Payne (or his travelling companion, John Hegarty) travelling to Australia (the first time).  I have an unpublished family history that refers to him arriving on the ‘Barthenope’ [Sic], which I take to be the Parthenope, but PROV records do not show him as a passenger on its 1875 (maiden) voyage.

There are a number of newspaper articles referring to John arriving on this ship:
Reporter (Box Hill, VIC 1889-1918), Friday 5 Nov 1909,
The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848-1954), Wednesday 3 August 1938, page 11

The PROV list of passengers for the Parthenope seems incomplete to me.
Perhaps the "B" and the "P" mixup was due to a heavy Irish accent 

Richard, after you have made 3 posts, you can communicate by the personal messenger system.
It would be wonderful to compare notes.

Cheers,
Alison