Poll

Why don't you test your DNA?

Too expensive
47 (34.1%)
Too Technical
8 (5.8%)
I'm scared they'll clone me
3 (2.2%)
I've already done it
52 (37.7%)
Other (explain)
28 (20.3%)

Total Members Voted: 138

Author Topic: DNA Testing - Why Not  (Read 51680 times)

Offline davidft

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Re: DNA Testing - Why Not
« Reply #171 on: Sunday 18 March 12 16:12 GMT (UK) »

There's a bit more to it but we are hoping a DNA test will sort out the confusion and confirm if he has Chinese ancestry?

If person A wants to know if person B is his father what he really needs is a paternity DNA test - this requires samples from person A and B

If person A only wants to know if he has some chinese ancestry he could take a family finder DNA test which gives details of a persons ethnic DNA make up. However this could be imprecise as although it may show person A had some chinese inheritance that would not automatically mean person B was his father.

So I guess if there is any chance of testing persons A and B together that would be the best way to go.

Another route could be if person B had a known child, person C then you could do a sibling DNA test to see if persons A and C were siblings / half siblings.

What you can do will depend in large part on who is prepared to be tested - and its not cheap
James Stott c1775-1850. James was born in Yorkshire but where? He was a stonemason and married Elizabeth Archer (nee Nicholson) in 1794 at Ripon. They lived thereafter in Masham. If anyone has any suggestions or leads as to his birthplace I would be interested to know. I have searched for it for years without success. Thank you.

Offline Lynne EnZed

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Re: DNA Testing - Why Not
« Reply #172 on: Sunday 18 March 12 16:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi davidft

Thanks for that! Person B has died but there is a known child Person C who is willing to be tested. The cost is prohibitive at the moment so that is why was wondering if person A could just do it and get a satisfactory result?

Given the circumstances, if test for Person A did show some Chinese ancestry then Person B would almost certainly be his Dad but, as you say, it would not be conclusive and a sibling test with Person C would be the best option.

However, if Person A had the test first and there was no sign of Chinese ancestry then Person C would not need to be involved and it would be cheaper?

Thank you very much for your help!

Kind regards and God bless you,
Lynne x
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Offline Pejic

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Re: DNA Testing - Why Not
« Reply #173 on: Sunday 18 March 12 20:54 GMT (UK) »
I answered other because I do not see how it would work, I had a test once which linked me to one of 9 or so "Eves".

I think the gene pool of my ancestors is so mixed up that I would have many "irrelevant" matches.

However, if someone could offer an explanation of how it would help me find:

1. My wife's illegimate mother's unrecorded father

2. Which William Hissey was my great, great, great grandfather

3. Which William Brooks was my great, great, great grandfather

4. Who were the parents of my great, great, great grandfather Richard Wernham

I am prepared to reconsider
Richard Wernham (Berkshire 18th century),
William Hissey (1805 to 1813, Hampstead Norris),
Kapirin (Siberia 19th Century),
Kitching 1850,
Mary Howse born 1806 ish,
Chris Truelove marr. John Pocock 2-7-1696, Kintbury, Berks

Offline Redroger

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Re: DNA Testing - Why Not
« Reply #174 on: Monday 19 March 12 18:19 GMT (UK) »
I think Pejic your queries come in the catgegory "The impossible we do today. miracles take a little longer. :)
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Offline lubok

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Re: DNA Testing - Why Not
« Reply #175 on: Monday 04 February 13 05:52 GMT (UK) »
Hello, and many thanks to Nick for starting this debate on the topic of DNA testing when it comes to family tree research  ;D

Y-DNA testing definately has its place in genealogy research, and is a very useful tool in the kit of researchers. I admit the cost can be a hindrance. That said, the cost is coming down all the time, and you need to keep an eye open for specials that are announced now and then (I'm a Familytree DNA customer, and they had one last December 2012).

Those people who have been able to explore both their maternal and paternal lines of their families, in great depth, are very fortunate. I haven't been so fortunate, for I've hit an "illegitimacy brick wall", like some other researchers that I've come across, and can sympathise with those people. My paternal grandfather was illegitimate, and there is a big "NR" in capital letters on the part of his birth certificate where his father's information is supposed to be. I've explored my mother's side, and my father's mother's side, but have gotten NOWHERE with my father's father's side. It would be lovely to know what my actual maiden name should have been, and I get a bit annoyed when some people disparage DNA research for genealogy purposes. How lucky they are to not have a big brick wall to try and break down without needing to resort to DNA testing. It means so much to me to solve this mystery, and to find out my paternal roots.

So anyway... back to my paternal grandfather...

He was told, in later years, that his biological father was a BURGESS. Instead of blindly accepting that bit of information, I researched the Burgess family in New Zealand (where I live) and I entertained the possibility of using DNA to test this theory (after all, what use is a paper trail when you cannot prove that paper trail?) At least I had a surname to go on - what was there to lose? So in 2009 I sent my brother's DNA off to the FTDNA company, requesting a Y-67 marker test. My results came back... no close matches at that stage, which was a bit of a disappointment. Still, I was optimistic that in time, as more people got tested, I'd be closer to solving the mystery of my paternal line. A year or so later, I get a Y-67 one step removed result with a DICKSON. Scratching my head, I asked for advice from the Burgess Surname Project administrator (Michael Burgess), and he said the only way forward was to enlist a male from the Burgess family that I could be connected with.

Then I had a serendipitous discovery a couple of years ago. My son's teacher, a Burgess, came from that NZ Burgess family that could possibly be my biological paternal line! It wasn't so straightforward, however, because this teacher is a female (I needed a sample from a male). After while of agonising on exactly how to broach this idea with her ("Hey, how do you feel about getting your Dad to submit his DNA for genealogy purposes?"), she asked her Dad, who then agreed to helping me prove or disprove this Burgess connection. Not only did I have to get my teacher on board, we had to have her Dad on board, too! The cost of it all (which I gladly paid) didn't matter to me. Enlisting a member of the Burgess family to do DNA testing was my only way to find out once and for all if I belonged to the Burgess family.

Ecstatic! I arranged for a swab test (Y-37 markers was recommended to me, and not Y-67 markers), waited for it to arrive, gave it to my teacher (who then gave it to her Dad), and then he speedily did the swabbing before I hurriedly posted it back to the USA. For an agonising amount of time (3 months, I think it was), I waited. I cannot say how disappointed I was to get the results, to find out that my brother's DNA did not match my teacher's father's DNA. I was secretly hoping all along to have proved that I was a Burgess. Still, even after the disappointment, I was able to PROVE that I wasn't a Burgess... which was still significantly important to me. DNA testing made that possible, and that's why DNA testing is so important, and the reason why we need genealogists to swab. If you don't believe in the importance of DNA, please think of your children/grandchildren and so forth and do it for them. After all... once you've gone, it's one less person that they can approach for assistance should they be into researching their tree at some point in their lives. In many instances, it can be too late to test theories that require DNA, because the person that could have provided their DNA has passed away.

Anyway (this is getting to be very long...sorry!)
Michael (the Burgess co-ordinator person, who's been a very helpful man!) recommended that I upgrade to Y-111 markers. So I've done that, and await a match at some point in the future. I know that DNA testing for genealogy purposes is a waiting game, and doesn't give you gratifyingly instant results. But I'm happy to wait, and with more people testing I'll have a better chance of solving my "illegitimacy brick wall". It a very useful tool indeed!

Best of luck to those who those who are awaiting test results, or hoping for a match in the near future!

Rachel
Burgess (Warwickshire), Chenoweth (Middlesex), Cleland (Scotland), Dick (Yorkshire), Escreet/Escritt/Eskrett (Yorkshire), Evans (Yorkshire), Felton (Solihull, Warwickshire), Gould (Cheshire and Flintshire), Guest (Cheshire and Flintshire), Hasting/Hastings (Yorkshire), Hickson (Durham and Yorkshire), Little (Nth Ireland and NZ), Mattheus/Matthews (South Africa), Nicolson (NZ), Sanderson (Hull, Yorkshire), Shelley(Staffordshire), Southee (Kent), Summers (Fife and Glasgow), Turner, van Aardt (RSA)

Offline Redroger

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Re: DNA Testing - Why Not
« Reply #176 on: Monday 04 February 13 13:06 GMT (UK) »
Reports have suggested that with an illegitimacy rate of around 10% DNA testing soon becomes a lottery. I had a 37 marker Y test about 2 years ago, so far I have one 36 marker match, descendant of illegitimate offspring of my grandfather's brother; different surname. A man with the same surname as me has a 33 marker correspondence, paper trees suggest convergence around 1600AD; however different haplotype, mine is Viking, his central European. Since the surname has only around 1000 males worldwide I wonder if an error has been made with either of our haplotypes? However, FTDNA aren't having it unless we pay a further fee.
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Offline Pejic

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Re: DNA Testing - Why Not
« Reply #177 on: Monday 04 February 13 17:07 GMT (UK) »
Lubok - Burgess was a title as well as a surname, are you sure he was referring to a surname?

As someone also descended from several love children (see my previous post) I recognise your problems/frustration, but realistically speaking unless some odd document surfaces (like a will or a bastardy order or a notation in a parish register or a letter in a solicitors archive) I accept that it is more profitable to research other lines after a day or two.  Given that 10% of births are not actually related to the recorded father anyway, the search is the fun.

Good luck
Richard Wernham (Berkshire 18th century),
William Hissey (1805 to 1813, Hampstead Norris),
Kapirin (Siberia 19th Century),
Kitching 1850,
Mary Howse born 1806 ish,
Chris Truelove marr. John Pocock 2-7-1696, Kintbury, Berks

Offline degenerate

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Re: DNA Testing - Why Not
« Reply #178 on: Tuesday 05 February 13 01:38 GMT (UK) »
However, if someone could offer an explanation of how it would help me find:

1. My wife's illegimate mother's unrecorded father
2. Which William Hissey was my great, great, great grandfather
3. Which William Brooks was my great, great, great grandfather
4. Who were the parents of my great, great, great grandfather Richard Wernham

I am prepared to reconsider

Genetic testing doesn't offer such information directly or provide any guarantees whatsoever, but it might help put you into contact with genetic relatives that may have the information you need or can help you infer it.  If your distant relatives have not been tested then there'll be nothing for you to match with in any significant way.

You can pick the test that suits your needs (or go for all of them):

  • Y-DNA is passed relatively unchanged down the pure-paternal line (from father to son only, so excellent for surname studies).
  • mtDNA is passed relatively unchanged down the pure-maternal line (from mother to all children, but only daughters can pass it on).
  • Autosomal testing (like 23andMe) looks at all the chromsome contributions from both sides of your family and can detect cousins up to around the 6th level and perhaps further out.

If, for example, there are two men with the same surname but with paper trails that do not overlap, then Y-DNA testing can prove beyond reasonable doubt if they are descended from the same man. A negative result would prove no biological connection, but could not rule out adoption, remarriage, illegitimacy etc.

There is a good element of chance involved but you don't know what you will find until you try. It has the potential to save money as it can help rule-in or rule-out avenues of research and save you time and effort on fruitless ventures.

I can say that it has been absolutely invaluable to me in my one-name studies and has proven various hypotheses where documentary evidence was not forthcoming or extant.

I am hoping the Richard III venture will encourage more people to get tested.
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Online KGarrad

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Re: DNA Testing - Why Not
« Reply #179 on: Tuesday 05 February 13 07:49 GMT (UK) »
Genetic testing doesn't offer such information directly or provide any guarantees whatsoever, but it might help put you into contact with genetic relatives that may have the information you need or can help you infer it.  If your distant relatives have not been tested then there'll be nothing for you to match with in any significant way.

This is what, to me, is completely mind-boggling!

If someone offered you, say, a birth/baptism certificate at a cost of several hundred pounds or dollars, but with the same guarantee - you would laugh in their faces! ;D

A comparison website (isogg.org) suggests that, at 22nd December 2012 the largest database had about 180000 people.

So, the chances of finding a match (statistically) will be tiny?!

Sorry - still a sceptic! ::)
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