Lost in (South?) Wales ...

[welsh lady]

Hiya i think Johns birthplace could be Llanboidy or Llanedy.

Welsh Lady

[OzJen]

Hi there,

Yes, Alltcafan, that is the marriage - thank you. That marriage also helps to complicate things for me a bit as it was witnessed by Thomas THOMAS, who I suspect was John's father, as there was also a Thomas THOMAS living with the family according to census info. Trouble is - there are SOOO many Thomas THOMASes! I'm at a loss to how to work out which one could be right!

Unfortunately, it's the THOMAS side that I'm particularly interested in following - I'm using this avenue of research as a last-ditch effort to try and trace my 4g-grandfather, Benjamin Thomas, who was a cousin to John and Hannah's children. His birth seems to be impossible to find and so I started on the cousins, hoping they would lead me back to the 'common link'.

Thanks for your suggestions also, Morgan. I'll have a go at following up Ann JOHN(S) and see where that gets me in the hope that it yields a bit more information.

Back to it - there's got to be a 'hidden gem' to be found here somewhere!
OzJen

[Mabel Bagshawe]

This looks like the sister's marriage - address is Bedford St

David Davies - labourer
Ann John
Father's Name:    Richard Davies  engineer
Spouse Father's Name:    Thomas John labourer
9 Dec 1852
Toxteth Park St James
    

[OzJen]

Thanks, Mabel - I'm on to it!

Regarding my original post and trying to work out the actual placenames, could someone who knows how to pronounce the Welsh placenames tell me if what was recorded on the 1851 census for Hannah as 'Llanargh' could actually have been a bad transcription for 'Llangennech'? If a welshman said 'Llangennech', could it have been transcribed as 'Llanargh'? Is there any similarity in the way these two places are pronounced, please? I've found a birth for a Hannah John in 'Llangennech', Carmarthenshire for 1812, which would be the right timeframe, but would be interested in a more experienced opinion before I get too pleased about my discovery! 

Thanks again,
OzJen

[Gadget]

Llangennech would be pronounce

Llan  gen ech(gutteral)

by a North Wales person - not sure about the South 

It was more likely to be the way it was written that was misinterpreted - normall the head or a member of the family who was literat would werite down the information on a household schedule (a bit like the sheets for the 1911 that we see) and this info would be transferred to the book by the enumerator.

gnu

[Mabel Bagshawe]

As a welsh speaker I would guess yuo are looking at something like Llanerch or Llanarth

A word of warning if following the sister. There is an Ann Davies of around the right age in the Toxteth area, husband David, b Cross Inn Carms now Ammanford)  with family from Llanarthne and Llangathen, but she is nee Dickins and husband is a draper not an engineer!

[Morganllan]

I think it's going to be almost impossible to find the right Parish 

could be Llanllwch on the outskirts of Carmarthen:
http://streetmap.co.uk/grid/238600_218800_3

or several other places 

and John/Johns is not that unusual.

Have you looked for other John/s families in Toxteth Park?

I'm using this avenue of research as a last-ditch effort to try and trace my 4g-grandfather, Benjamin Thomas, who was a cousin to John and Hannah's children. His birth seems to be impossible to find and so I started on the cousins, hoping they would lead me back to the 'common link'.

I'm sorry that this common link is proving to be equally challenging.

Best wishes
Morgan

[OzJen]

Thanks, Morgan. Yep, I'm beginning to think this is a lost cause. I've spent hours on it so far and I'm not getting anywhere   

I haven't checked Toxteth for more John/s, but will do.

How do you say Llanllwch?

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.
OzJen

[Morganllan]

Thanks, Morgan. Yep, I'm beginning to think this is a lost cause. I've spent hours on it so far and I'm not getting anywhere   

I haven't checked Toxteth for more John/s, but will do.

How do you say Llanllwch?

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.
OzJen

Llanllwch = Llan Llwch

wch is pronounced as in ooch (ch as in Scottish Loch)

Info on Llanllwch:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llan-llwch/index.html

A useful guide on how to pronounce Welsh names:
http://www.go4awalk.com/fell-facts/welsh-language-pronunciation.php

Best Wishes
Morgan