1891 census look up please

[Gadget]

Sorry - posted in error - wrong thread!

[royjan]

This would tie in with James William Bartram b. 1857 Shoreditch as mentioned above but then there isn't a James with a father James showing on the 1861 or 1871 census

[bishenbertie]

Could this be James Bartram birth record in 1857:-

Jun 1857 Bartram  James William     Shoreditch  1c 194

Roy if it were me and finances allow I would purchase this birth cert.

[royjan]

Am getting more and more confused with this family ! I've relooked at them on the 1911 census and seen that 1. first three children are all working in connection with sweet making (fathers profession) and then decided to look up the company given as their employers - Auborn & Heaviside and they are in the Post Office Trdes Directory for both 1910 and 1915 as Haberdashers !  2. James has written British subject by parentage !! I give up !!! lol

[Maddie]

Hi

This is a real teaser, isn't it.

Did you also notice that on the above mentioned census they state 4 children born to them, surely there was 5.

Just a thought but there is a death of a George J Bartram in Battersea March Qtr 1940 aged 88, Vol 1d Page 526, he would be about the right age.

Do you know anything about Emily Back, perhaps if we knew her whereabouts in 1881 it might help.

Maddie

[royjan]

Hi Maddie

A real teaser - has to be out there somewhere ! Never noticed that about the children - yes it was 5 and all 5 lived. I wonder if James was totally confused with this census - wrong amount of children, childrens employer wasn't a confectioners but a haberdashers , and he said he was a british subject by parentage . Was it all mistakes I wonder???

Looked for a birth of a GJ Bartram but the nearest I've come is George Bartram born 1852 Hackney.

As for his wife Emily I know she was born 1862 from her death in 1929. There is an Emily Back born 1862 Shoreditch (Free BMD)but 1. Is that the Emily that married a James Thompson in 1887 or 2. mine ?  Because I cannot find James & Emily's marriage certificate c.1884 (according to the 1911 census) On the 1881 census I can find an Emily E Back (aged 20) a visitor in London, born in Worcester and an Emily J Back (aged 19yrs) living at home in Norfolk from what seems to be a very wealthy family.

Referring back to James Thompson  marrying an Emily Back in 1887 I've now found a birth of a James Thompson in Shoreditch in 1859  !!

Jan

[Maddie]

Hi Jan

Well, I thought I had some crackers but this one takes the biscuit. I can't imagine what was going on with the 1911 census, perhaps he misunderstood what he was supposed to write.

I couldn't see a birth for a George J Bartram either. So who knows.

I think you have the correct birth for Emily 1862 in Shoreditch, at least she is constant with a birth date, but where is she in the census. I don't think she is the Emily who married James Thompson in 1887, I've been trying to find this couple but I'm not sure that I have so I'll keep checking but one thing that I'm wondering about, there are usually 2 couples on the marriage reference page so did Emily Back actually marry James Thompson or are there a bride & groom missing, it's just a thought.

Could this be your James & Emily's marriage or did they just not bother, don't suppose they could have married abroad.

I did spot a James Bartram born London City in c1850 on the 1871 census, he is in Wales, a private in the 13th Foot  but I think his parents were Thomas & Abigail Bartram. There has to be something wrong with the name Bartram or Hackney/Shoreditch as there is no birth showing for James so, could he have been born something other than a Bartram & his mother then married a Bartram or born a Bartram but on the census under a step fathers name.

Oh what fun  As you say, he must be there somewhere it's just "looking outside the box".

I'll keep at it with fingers crossed, maybe they will both jump out all of a sudden.

Maddie

[Maddie]

Hi Jan

Checked out the 2 Emily's you mention from the 1881 & they aren't yours. Emily J is still in Norfolk through all census & doesn't marry, Emily E is back in Worcestershire in 1891. Back to the drawing board.

Maddie