Sr Nicholas Luke of Cople

[GregL]

To BunnyGirl,

You offered to look up Cople records. Many thanks. I am trying to find details on a son of Sir Nicholas Luke (wife Margaret St John), John bapt 26th July 1576 in Cople.

However none of the children for the couple appear on the IGI Batches for Cople.

My interest is that a number of online trees suggest John married very young (age 15 or 16) in Cornwall and may be am ancestor of mine. However he doesn't appear in Sir Nicholas' Will in 1613.

I think he may have died before Sir Nicholas and never in fact married.

Are you able to help?

GregL

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi GregL

Welcome to Rootschat

However none of the children for the couple appear on the IGI Batches for Cople.

? They're all on the IGI, which once again doesn't seem to be working for batch searches. and parent searches don't work as Margaret isn't named in the parish register as the mother

Oliver 26 Oct 1574
Ann 10 Dec 1578
Agnes 6 Nov 1580
Judith 15 May 1583
Isabel 12 Sept 1585
Thomas 13 Sept 1585
Thomas 10 Jun 1586
Elizabeth 1 Feb 1587
Katherine 15 Jun 1591

There are no John Luke burials in Beds between 1566 and 1656

Nicolas Luke c1495-1562 was my 12xg grandfather

David

[GregL]

Hi David,

Thanks for all the information. Based on your reply, have you any information about whether John married either in Bedfordshire or anywhere else for that matter?

If he did marry Ellinor King(e) in Kilkhampton Cornwall in 1592 (Cornwall OPC) or 1593 (IGI) you and I might even be related.

According to online trees Ellinor was born in about 1567, the daughter of John and Elizabeth King of Woburn, Bedford.

Thanks,
GregL

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Greg

Sorry, I haven't looked very closely at this branch of the Luke family. Why would a couple from Beds marry in Cornwall?

I'll take a look over the weekend

David

[GregL]

Hi David,

If the story is true, and I think it a little fanciful (my ancestors were miners and small holders) then John may have been about 15 when Ellinor became pregnant and they married well after the first child was born. She was 10 years or so older and perhaps the families wanted nothing to do with them.

Sir Nicholas' Will mentions sons Oliver and Thomas (who is called "my second son", even though Thomas was the 4th born son) daughters, sons-in-law, grandchildren, and even any possible children of Thomas' as he was unmarried when Sir Nicholas died. That made me think that John was dead. Others think he was disinherited!


GregL

[bedfordshire boy]

If John was already dead in 1613 then Thomas would have been the second (living) son. I think if John had still been alive he would have been named and left a nominal sum, if only to prevent the risk of the will being contested - the old man must have lost his marbles, he forgot me altogether.

But where he was buried before 1613 escapes me

Could you list other names mentioned in the will? Thanks

David

[GregL]

Hi David,

Names mentioned include:
1. Thomas Luke "my second sonne" who inherited a "rectorie parsonage" and 20 acres in the town of Bedford.
2. "such wife as my said sonne Thomas shall happen to marrye"
3. Sr Oliver Luke - "my sonne and heire" who inherited most of the estates
4. Nicholas Luke - grandchild, 3rd son of Sr Oliver
5. "my eldest dau dame Anne Fleetwood wife of Sr Miles Fleetwood"
6. John Cooke Esquire and Judeth my second daughter his wife
7. Katherine "my youngest daughter when she shall marrye".
8. 5 different servants
9. "the poore of Cople"
 
I hope that helps,

GregL

[Bunnygirl]

Hi Gregl,
Taken from Cople Parish Register
Baptisms
1562 Dec 21 Cicely daughter of Mr Paul Luke
1563 Dec 21 Nicholas son of Mr Paul Luke gent
1574 Oct 26 Oliver son of Nicholas  Luke esq
1576 July 26 John son of Nicholas Luke Esq
1578 Dec  10 Ann daughter of Nich Luke Esq
1580 Nov 6 Agnes  daughter of Nicholas Luke Esq
Same as David quotes
Marriages
1578 Feb 10 Robert Matthews & Mary Luke
1609 Aug 3 Mrs Judith Luke & John Cooke gent.

Burials
1566 Mr John Luke Esq
1567 Jan William Daye servant to Mr Waltor Luke
1590 Jan 28 Ann wife of Nicholas Luke Esq
1597 June 12 Margaret wife of Nicholas Luke Esq
1613 " Nicholas Luke Esq dyed the 4th day of July beinge Sunday att Rouney and was buried the 5th of July in the north chancell of Cople whose funerall was kepte with great solemnitie of the 4th day of August ensueing"  ( Rouney hamlet is in parish of Southill)
1626 Jan 24 Kath daughter  of Mr Nicholas Luke Esq
1629 April 27 Sam Luke
1641 Dec 8 Hen Rose servant to ye Right Worshipfull Samuell Luke
No burials 1643  - 1652
1658 March 10 Margaret daughter of Sir Samuel  & Elizabeth Luke.
No Burials 1660-1
1688 Feb 11 John Luke (only shown in BT'S)
1690 Aug 28 John Luke Esq
1691 Feb 3 Susan Low servant to esq ------ Luke
1691 Feb 5 Elizabeth wife of Oliver Luke Esq
1691 Feb 21 Mrs Sarah Luke
1694 Feb 22 Lady Luke Buried in line(o)n
1708 May 29 Oliver Luke Esq
1710 June 17 Mrs Jane Luke
1731 Feb 7 George Luke Esq
1743 May 8 Mrs Elizabeth Luke widow of George Luke.

At the beginning of Cople Parish Register there are some notes on the Luke family do you already have them?
I do have a copy of Southill Pr I'll have a look and see if there are any further notes on Nicholas Lukes death of 1613

Hope these help
Bunnygirl

[bedfordshire boy]

Thanks for the 1613 will detail Greg. It helps.

The Visitation of Bedfordshire 1634 only shows Sir Oliver, Ann, Thomas, Judith and Catherine as children of Nicholas and Margaret. If John had married and had children I think he would in all probability have been shown in the visitation.

Elizabeth baptised in 1587 is also not mentioned in the will so presumably had died before 1613, but there is again no burial for her in Cople

I'd like to know how the online trees linked the Cornwall John Luke to Beds. Guesswork? Is a 15 year old son of one of the major families in Beds likely to have married the 25 year old daughter of an unknown family from Woburn, Beds, in Cornwall? Is there any evidence that John Luke in Cornwall owned property, or that the Cople Lukes were landowners in Cornwall?

Naming a son Nicholas in Cornwall could help make a case for his father John being the son of a Nicholas but a naming pattern without any supporting evidence isn't at all conclusive.

Without any evidence other than the name's the same I'm not in the least convinced that it's the same John. In fact I'm pretty sure it isn't.

But it's incumbent on the other tree owners to prove their case, not for you to disprove it. I can see nothing for the supposition, but plenty against it.

David