Author Topic: Thomas Morris and Richard Morris master mariners of Newport  (Read 3911 times)

Offline Ainecollier

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Thomas Morris and Richard Morris master mariners of Newport
« on: Wednesday 08 February 12 17:53 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
I have been trying to find more about my gg and ggg grandfathers, both born in Newport Wales.
Thomas Morris was born to Richard Morris and his wife, Mary, about 1821. Richard was a master mariner, as was Thomas.
The big mysteries, beyond trying to go beyond Richard, who was born about 1797 and his wife was born in 1776...too many morris'! include Thomas moved to Southampton, married mariner Moses Hickman's daughter Hannah, but through the censuses, it is clear he left her with two children to support.
Does anyone know these mariners and anything about earlier generations? It would appear they may have come from Llandago, but it is difficult to tell.
Anything would be great!

Offline osprey

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Re: Thomas Morris and Richard Morris master mariners of Newport
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 08 February 12 18:58 GMT (UK) »
Do you have Thomas on any census? Or his parents? Could you give the refs if you do.

Was Mary Morris 23 years older than her husband?

Llandogo parish records have been transcribed. There are some Morris entries, but none to match Richard or Thomas. I can see a Thomas born c. 1823, son of Richard, both master mariners, but from Newport, Pembrokeshire not the one in Monmouthshire.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/llandogoprt.htm

 :-\ 
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Thomas Morris and Richard Morris master mariners of Newport
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 08 February 12 19:15 GMT (UK) »
right, looks like this should be on the Pembrokeshire board.

1851 High St, Newport HO107/2481 folio 44 pg 3
Richard Morris head mar 61 master mariner b. Newport
Mary wife 71 b. Nevern
Elizabeth dau 30 dressmaker b. Newport

Thomas is in Glasgow for this census.

Father & son are on this index
http://www.welshmariners.org.uk/search.php
Thomas lost at sea in 1865, ship not heard from after leaving Quebec heading for Penarth Roads.

MI for Richard & Mary at Ebenezer Independent in Newport

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/PEM/Newport/index.html
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Thomas Morris and Richard Morris master mariners of Newport
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 08 February 12 19:30 GMT (UK) »
baptisms from IGI extracted batch C025141 for Newport, Pembs to parents Richard Morris & Mary

Thomas bp 27/6/1820
David bp 19/11/1815
Ann bp 28/8/1812
Elizabeth bp 14/11/1817

1861 census showing daughters' married names
Lower High St, Newport RG9/4173 folio 43 pg 16
Richard Morris head widower 71 retired master mariner
Thomas son 38 master mariner
Ann Phillips dau widow 47
Elizabeth Davies dau mar 40 mariner's wife
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb


Offline osprey

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Re: Thomas Morris and Richard Morris master mariners of Newport
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 08 February 12 20:08 GMT (UK) »
when & where did Thomas & Hannah marry? Do you have the cert to confirm father for Thomas? The only likely mix of these names I can see is in this census, but Thomas is a groom, not a mariner

1841 Bridge St, Southampton HO107/416/5 folio 45 pg 3
Mary Hikman 50 clothes dealer
Moses 21 cabinet maker
Charles 19 shomaker
John Thomas 17 labourer
/Thomas Morris 20 groom
Hanna 20 Morris
Elizabeth 9 months
/Thomas Howard 50 option (?)
Ann Howard 30

Mary, Thomas and the 2 Howards are not born in county

 :-\
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Ainecollier

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Re: Thomas Morris and Richard Morris master mariners of Newport
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 11 February 12 11:15 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for all the fantastic information and suggestions!
I made a mistake on Richard's birthdate - just notpaying attention to my typing! - he was born in Newport in 1790 and was 14 years Mary's junior.
I did not know about the son Richard or the tomb stones, so that is really helpful.
Thomas Morris married Hannah Hickman on Portsea Island in 1840; the census of 41 shows him as a groom. My guess is that is because he was sent to family friends from Southampton, the family of Moses Hickman (Hannah's father), mariner. The addresses for both families are right near one another. And, in that brief marriage record, he is identifed as thomas boice morriss....that reference shows up again in his children's marriage bans father deceased, "Thomas Boyce Morris, master mariner." That is why, with that unusual middle name, I am sure this is the same person. I had hoped the Boice/Boyce would help find his mother mary - maybe - but have never been able to find anything about it!

Hannah seems to have been deserted by Thomas, going by the censuses over the decades. She is a mariner's wife in 51', head of household after that...she ends up following her son Charles Morris to London - Rotherhithe - where my grandfather, Charles Morris, was born.
I think Moses Hickman's wife might be the Welsh connection between the Hickmans and Morris', as she was Mary Davies, born in Poole, Dorset, I cannot find her family and somehow, she ends up with a Southampton mariner. Davies is Welsh AND richard Morris's daughter Elizabeth married a mariner called Davies (she lived with her father in newport in the 1861 census, indicating husband away. the following census, she is a mariner's widow.)
Mary Davies Hickman is an inigma, showing up as a widow and living with Hannah and her children in London, so her husband has no doubt died at sea (which is what happened to Capt Thomas Morris, who died on his way back from Quebec to Cardiff). She is "just" a widow, I cannot find death records for Moses.
Mariners everywhere, but finding their connections and parents is proving very difficult!
(the monmouthshire query was mine; in some reports, the surrounding area of Newport had a fluid border, sometimes Pembrokeshire, sometimes Monmouthshire).
Thank you again, I hope I can continue to find answers!

Offline osprey

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Re: Thomas Morris and Richard Morris master mariners of Newport
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 11 February 12 18:55 GMT (UK) »
there are 2 entirely different Newports, the counties don't share a border, they're at opposite sides of the country.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/

There's more than one Thomas Morris who was a mariner. The 1861 census mentioned on the Welsh Mariners' site for Thomas born Newport is actually that for Thomas born Trevine, so they're evidently easily mixed up. Given that Thomas born Newport shows on the census as unmarried, I doubt that he is the man who married Hannah Hickman. The only census that Thomas married to Hannah shows on is the 1841, so rounded down age and just not born in county to go. He could come from anywhere in England & Wales. Unless his home address is given on the marriage cert?

Mariners not being on the census is common as they're quite often at sea. Also, I wouldn't read anything into 2 appearances of the name Davies. It's not exactly uncommon in Wales!

 ::)

Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb