GERMANY : Katzenstein From Kassel

[Kmann]

Thank you very much Graham.  Could you could help me with the Joseph Katzenstein Birth Record that I attached two posts up?  I just found this birth record a few hours ago.

David

[apwright]

Grebenstein am 31n Januar 1876.
Vor dem unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute, der Persönlichkeit nach bekannt, der Kaufmann Levi Katzenstein wohnhaft zu Grebenstein Oberthorstr 137, jüdischer Religion, und zeigte an, daß von der Mathilde Katzenstein geb. Hehse, seine Ehefrau jüdischer Religion, wohnhaft bei ihm zu Grebenstein in seiner Wohnung am siebenundzwanzigsten Januar des Jahres tausend acht hundert siebenzig und sechs Abends um sechs Uhr ein Kind männlichen Geschlechts geboren worden sei, welches den Vornamen Joseph erhalten habe.
Vorgelesen, genehmigt und unterschrieben
Levi Katzenstein
Der Standesbeamte.
(signature)


Grebenstein, 31 January 1876.
Before the undersigned registrar there appeared today the person known to this office as the merchant Levi Katzenstein, residing at Grebenstein, Obertorstraße 137, of the Jewish confession, and registered that to Mathilde Katzenstein, nee Hehse, his wife, of the Jewish confession, residing with him, at Grebenstein at his domicile on the twenty-seventh of January of the year one thousand eight hundred and seventy six at six o'clock in the evening there was born a child of the male sex which has received the forename Joseph.
Read, approved and signed
Levi Katzenstein
The Registrar.
(signature)

Adrian

EDIT: P.S. The fragment of the handwritten note on the left refers to a different record, as it talks of striking out the name "Johann" and replacing it with "George".

EDIT#2: Yes, as Justin says below, it's Heße/Hesse, not Hehse. Sorry!

[JustinL]

David,

I'm glad that Frau List was able to help you. Which website did she refer you to? Was it the Standesamt?

His birth/circumcision should have been amongst the last in the Jewish community records, and may have provided more information.

Have you found any information about Joseph's parents Levi and Mathilde nee Hesse? You'll probably have to go back to Frau List again.

Rgds, Justin

[GrahamSimons]

By no means perfect - is there anyone out there who can improve?


Nr 7

Grebenstein, 31st Januar 1876

Vor dem unterzeichneted Stadtsbeamten erschten heute, der Persönlichkeit nach bekannt, der [1] Levi Katzenstein wohnhaft zu Grebenstein [2] 137, jüdischer Religion, und zeigte an, daβ von der Mathilde Katzenstein geb. Hesse [3] jüdischer Religion, wohnhaft [4] zu Grebenstein in [5] [6] am siebenunzwanzigten Januar des Jahres tausend acht hundert siebenzig und sechs, abends un fünf Uhr ein Kind männlichen Geschlechts geboren sei, welches eine Vornames Joseph erhalten habe.
Vorgelegen, genemicht und []
Levi Katzenstein
Der Stadtsbeamte
[]


I am having real problems reading the handwriting: you are probably better placed to do this as you’ll have clues which will help.

[1 must be profession]  Levi Katzenstein, resident at 137 [2, street name] in Grebenstein, of the Jewish faith, appeared personally before the Town Clerk today to make known that a male child was born whose forename is Joseph, of Mathilde Katzenstein, born Hesse [3 perhaps place of birth which I can’t read], of the Jewish faith, resident [4] in Grebenstein in [5, 6 must be address] on the 27th January of the year 1876 at five o’clock in the evening.
[Not sure of this bit of translation, I think it must be on the lines of “declared and sworn”]
Levi Katzenstein
[signature]
Town Clerk

[Kmann]

Justin, Graham & Adrian:

Thank you all so very much for your help!  I can now press on and hopefully discover more information about my Katzenstien relatives.

My email to Frau List was answered by Sabine Uhde who referred me to Vera Moellers at the Immenhausen-Grebenstein registrars office, who in turn referred me to Ute Jäger at the Grebenstein Citizens Advice Bureau.

Thanks again for all of your assistance.

David

[JustinL]

That's quite a trail of helpers, and you still obtained the desired information pretty quickly. I'm impressed. Were there no language difficulties?

Hopefully, Frau Ulrike List or Sabine Uhde won't mind your enquiries for everything they can possibly give you on the Katzensteins of Grebenstein.

Justin

[GrahamSimons]

...still hoping that someone will tidy up my translations: I regret how poor my German is when I meet Germans who are fluent in English (and French too) at the age of 15 or 16.

I support Willi Brandt's statement "If I’m selling to you, I speak your language. If I’m buying, dann müssen Sie Deutsch sprechen."

[Kmann]

Graham, the translations that you did for me were just fine.  I got the main points of the documents, which is most important.

During my email conversations, I would compose my thoughts and then use Google Translate to come up with my email in German.  After getting a reply in German, I would again go to Google Translate for the English translation.  It appeared to work perfectly, at least from my end.

David

[GrahamSimons]

I am reminded of the apocryphal tale of the electronic translator which was tested by translating "out of sight, out of mind" from English into Russian and back. The reply was, "invisible madman." My experience of automatic translators is that they get most things half right, some things spectacularly wrong, and leave critical things untranslated!