Author Topic: Graham/Shackleton  (Read 12480 times)

Offline nanny jan

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Re: Graham/Shackleton
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 23 February 12 08:52 GMT (UK) »
Yes it is an Australian Death Certificate and the 'informant' was her eldest brother, Norman Hope Graham, who you would think may have known.  It was his son Roy Graham who first alerted us to the anomaly, when he found some notes in Norman hand saying that Eveline's mother was Harriet Lawson.  The DC confirmed that.

With out suggesting anything, we think we know that Norman grandmother registered Eveline birth.

We will be in Sunderland this coming April and will try to get a copy of the certificate.  Thanks.

Maxk

Whose death certificate has  "eldest brother Norman Hope Graham" as the informant?  I thought you were asking about Eveline Beatrice Shackleton who married Robert  Graham;  Norman would be her son.

Can you find Harriet Lawson on any census as a maid to JH Shackleton?


Nanny Jan
Howard , Viney , Kingsman, Pain/e, Rainer/ Rayner, Barham, George, Wakeling (Catherine), Vicary (Frederick)   all LDN area/suburbs  Ottley/ MDX,
Henman/ KNT   Gandy/LDN before 1830  Burgess/LDN
Barham/SFK   Rainer/CAN (Toronto) Gillians/CAN  Sturgeon/CAN (Vancouver)
Bailey/LDN Page/KNT   Paling/WA (var)



All census look-ups are crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Maxk

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Re: Graham/Shackleton
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 23 February 12 10:52 GMT (UK) »
Yes she is shown on a census ( I think 1881) as the maid.  She is certainly mentioned as mother on Eveline Beatrice'c DC.  Another member of the family in London told me that he thought Harriet Lawson had been dismissed as the next census shows a different maid.  The question still remains, was EB Job H daughter or did the Shackleton generously decide to raise her as one of their own.

Offline Maxk

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Re: Graham/Shackleton
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 23 February 12 10:57 GMT (UK) »
Sorry I forgot to mention that EB Graham death Certificate has Harriet Lawson as her mother.

There is also a pencil note by Norman Hope Graham her eldest son saying that HL was her mum.  It was this note that promoted the query.

Not that it matters but it is an interesting scenario if my great grand mother was born on the other side of the blanket!
Maxk

Offline avm228

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Re: Graham/Shackleton
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 23 February 12 11:05 GMT (UK) »

We will be in Sunderland this coming April and will try to get a copy of the certificate.  Thanks.


If you don't want to wait until then you can order it online from www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)


Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Graham/Shackleton
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 23 February 12 11:45 GMT (UK) »
You could try emailing Sunderland Registrars and see if they will have a look for you. They are always very helpful. http://www.sunderland.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1399

Stan
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline nanny jan

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Re: Graham/Shackleton
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 23 February 12 14:14 GMT (UK) »
Yes she is shown on a census ( I think 1881) as the maid.  She is certainly mentioned as mother on Eveline Beatrice'c DC.  Another member of the family in London told me that he thought Harriet Lawson had been dismissed as the next census shows a different maid.  The question still remains, was EB Job H daughter or did the Shackleton generously decide to raise her as one of their own.

Can you confirm the census reference please?


Nanny Jan
Howard , Viney , Kingsman, Pain/e, Rainer/ Rayner, Barham, George, Wakeling (Catherine), Vicary (Frederick)   all LDN area/suburbs  Ottley/ MDX,
Henman/ KNT   Gandy/LDN before 1830  Burgess/LDN
Barham/SFK   Rainer/CAN (Toronto) Gillians/CAN  Sturgeon/CAN (Vancouver)
Bailey/LDN Page/KNT   Paling/WA (var)



All census look-ups are crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline avm228

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Re: Graham/Shackleton
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 23 February 12 14:47 GMT (UK) »
Harriet certainly does not seem to appear in the Shackleton household (as a maid or otherwise) in 1881.  The couple were not yet married in 1871 (they married in Sunderland in 1873).
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline clearly

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Re: Graham/Shackleton
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 23 February 12 16:50 GMT (UK) »
Anyone else confused by this post. Would love to help out but could I just sum up to see if I have it right.
Job H Shackleton mariies Jane Ann Hope in 1873. Six children (including Eveline Beatrice b1877)  Evelline marries Robert John Graham in 1901. When she dies her eldest son states on the Australian death cert that Eveline's mother was actually Harriet Lawson. This appears to be the only documentary evidence of Harriet so far.
Jane Ann Hope, her father and Eveline would all have been able to falsify records of birth if they were so inclined.
Forster Cul, Harrison Cul, Wood Cul Yks, Castley Cul & Wes, Lorimer Cul and Perth,Innis Cul, Casson, Cul, Johnston,Cul & Nfk, Carruthers Cul, Ewart Cul, Jardine Cul & Dmf, Story Cul, ONeill Cul & NI, Davis Cul & Ldn,

Offline jorose

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Re: Graham/Shackleton
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 23 February 12 18:46 GMT (UK) »
I am wondering now if there was just some confusion in the family, as the only firm record seems to be on her death certificate and that information tends to be the least accurate (as depending when they went to Australia, . Her son even has the Hope surname as a middle name, and she fits in neatly between George Henry (December 1875) and William Frederick C (Dec quarter 1878). It's not as if there is some inconsistency that suggests she might not be Janes' - e.g. if she was the youngest by some way, if her birth was three months after that of another child.

Quote
we know that Norman grandmother registered Eveline birth
The mother of Job Shackleton? A person present at the birth could register it, and older female relatives often acted as midwives for home births. By itself this is not unusual. The address of birth, if this wasn't the usual family address, could be a hint.

We do not appear to have any census records showing Harriet in the household (not with Job and his parents in 1871, not with Job in 1881, not with Job's parents in 1881, there are no possibles for her that I can see in Sunderland in 1871 and 1881 at all).

Remember that family stories are like a game of Telephone. There presumably was a Harriet Lawson involved in the family somewhere, perhaps a relative who was close to Eveline, because names generally do not appear out of thin air. However, as Norman was only 5 when Jane died, and then the family moved across the world a couple years later, he presumably had few memories of his grandmother. And we have no way of knowing whether, in fact, after marriage in 1901 if Eveline was in much contact with her family (for example, if they didn't approve of Robert).
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk