William berners Lizzi berners (brewer) battersea

[gailcb]

Have just spent more hours searching the names of William Berners and 'lizzie', and found that there are two William Hugh Berners, both connected to Surrey - one married to Edith and one married to Elizabeth Jane, again from Surrey.  Then while doing some searches on them......I came across a Rev. William Berners and Mrs Berners, aged 47 and 45 travelling back from Calcutta 27 April  1895. That intrigues me as William Thomas retired back to the UK in 1880, so there is this new William Berners in Calcutta to follow.  So now it would appear that there were two William Hugh Berners living close by to each other in Surrey, one marrying an Elizabeth Jane from Surrey.  Then there are two William Berners who were out in Calcutta...one being William Thomas and the other a Reverend William Berners................maybe that is why this has been so complicated.  I am hoping by following these two new William and William Hugh that we might finally get to finding out who is who.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

I've not got much expertise in follwing house histories, but the ownership of the properties Lizzie is in or who is paying rates etc on them may reveal something

[gailcb]

Hi Mabel, yes, thanks for that, is definitely something worth looking into, as we know that Lizzie did not have money of her own, so would be good to know who actually owned the properties.

[Mita10]

Hi Gail and Linda - intrigued with your problem (and maybe WT's secret family) but also that couldn't find any of your Berners births listed in 1881 census on FreeBMD.  Maybe they were registered under another name. Noted that Albert W Berners was born when Lizzie was 18 - she was very young. I have been looking for births in Wandsworth with matching first names and year of birth.  Found three births that look like Stuart, Arthur and Athol.  These are:
Stuart Frederick BREWER Jun qtr 1876 Wandsworth 1d/686
Arthur Ernest BREWER Sep qtr 1878 Wandsworth 1d/695
Athol Gilbert BREWER Mar qtr 1881 Wandsworth 1d/713
Possible the other two children, Albert and Francis, were registered under still another name or in another district but have not found them so far.

[gailcb]

Hi Mita....yes, there is a census return for 1881, but again it is with 'Lizzie' Berners as the head of the family - William the 'husband' not mentioned, but she is with all the children and a servant.  So we know all the kids are named 'Berners' and there are christening documents listed for them in the same names.  It has been such a confusing search with this family as so many pass the same names onto children, Uncles, Cousins etc. It makes it so easy to get side tracked and go off following the wrong ones. . Am now just trawling through all the family again and trying to figure out where each one fits it.  Does not help that we are now coming up with duplicate names for the men, but with different wives........living in the same areas.  These Berners are a difficult bunch.

[gailcb]

ooops forgot to say...what you found with the names Brewer for the children..that is strange, maybe that proves that she was a 'kept' woman as they were in her maiden name on those registers........but in the Christening records, William was down as the father and named the children Berners..........this just gets more intriguing as we go along. 

[lindac26]

hi mita 10, thanks for spending the time looking that up for us.  It least it shows that they probabley didn't get married.  On all later records she is using the last name berners, and william as the father.  Stuart fredrick lied about most things.  On this marrage certificate he put done that his father had died but used this dead brothers name, william lawrence berners, who died when he was 22 of tb.  On his place of birth we put down ontario, canada.  Didn't want any of his new inlaws knowing anything about his past. Also changed his name to curzon-berners. 

[Mita10]

Hi.  The proof or not would be in Athol's birth cert. - he was only 8 wks old at the time of the 1881 census.  As for Stuart, don't think too badly of him.  If you were born into the lower classes and wanted to better yourself that usually meant trying to move into a higher level, and that was very difficult - class prejudice in the British Empire was very strong in the 1900s.  There was also a social stigma attached to illegimate children.  Quite a number of people dealt with it by hanging their names, claiming they were born into a higher social level, or by emigrating and reinventing themselves.  I have a number of relatives who did that - one was born in 1815 then disappeared entriely until the 1881 census when she popped up with a completely different surname claiming she was a widow - which she wasn't.  It makes it difficult for us researchers, though.
You mentioned William Hugh Berners.  You have probably flushed him out by now but he was, as I mentioned, born in 1846 the son of William Berners (1797-1855).  He married Edith K Townend of Hove, Sussex in 1866.  There are, as you know, no other marriages of a William Berners in the period to 1910. 
1871 census - William & Edith are at Shrapnel Park, Byfleet, Surrey (probably Schrapnel Park) and he is a brewer.
1881 census - Edith appears staying with her mother, Elizabeth Townend, in Hove, with her daughter. It looks as if she is living off rents from property.  Like you, I'm unable to locate WH.
WH Berners turns up in the 1891 census in East Portlemouth, Devonshire (name recorded as Burner).
1901 census - living on own means, Corsham, Wiltshire with wife.
1911 census - in Southwick, Surrey with his wife, private means, one child still living.
He died in 1929 aged 83.

[lindac26]

thanks for all the help.  The only other little bit of info i have found is in the school records.  Found the oldest son, as william brewer, father william, living at 1 austin road wandsworth, school name was holden street school, grayshott road, wandsworth.  He was age 8.  On his death certificate, he died age 22 of tb, on the occupation it just says son of william berners of independent means.