Watkins Marriage look-up, please~ COMPLETE

[osprey]

the person supplying the info should be the head of house - John. Census day is a Sunday. The enumerator delivered the census forms before the day and picked them up afterwards.

Llanfihangel Ystern Llewern is the nearest of the Llanfihangels

http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/places?MON,SO398149,5,Llantillio%20Crossenny

Given that there is no father's name on the marriage record, I would think that he was the son of the single mother, but it's common name, I wouldn't like to say for sure.

 

[charwatkin]

I woke up last night thinking about this. Is there no father listed because the transcript was illegible or there really was no father?

It would seem highly likely that Sarah Watkins may have been his mother. That being said... it would mean that we are not really Watkins... but Rees? Is there a way to find Sarah located at a later date with her son?

Would it be common, for that time period, for a man with Elizabeth's father's wealth... Henry Sykes.... to allow his daughter to marry a bastard?

It is interesting to know how the census was done. If the head of household gave the information, what accounts for the differences? Did he just not know or was he hiding something? (There are many cases of different birth places and age differences in census's in the U.S., yet are the same person/family) I guess, this has me confused a bit.

Can you explain the records for me? What do the different abbreviations mean on these records ... ie... "otp"

So many questions..... (sorry) 

[charwatkin]

Went back to look at the birth record again... it gives Rees as the last name for the John born at that time....

Because of that, I am thinking that John would be son of George & Mary.... if it were Llantillo Crossenney.

I guess, next step would be to try and locate George & Mary... other children and see if they fit in. (I would guess I would need a new thread for that! LOL) 

Thanks for all your input!

[osprey]

sorry, otp is of this parish.

The way to check for a father's name would be to buy a copy of the marriage cert. I was surprised to see the way John son of Sarah was noted at baptism. Children of unmarried mothers would normally take the surname of their mother at this time and even if the parents married later, the child would be considered illegitimate. It could be that the Rees was his middle name.

Did Henry leave a will? He may not have owned the land he farmed, he could have been a tenant farmer and the second half of the 19th century wasn't good for many farmers, so he may not have been as wealthy as the acres farmed suggests. The land is also high & hilly.

http://www.go4awalk.com/uk-mountains-and-hills/mountains-england-wales.php?mountain=17675

I had a look for George Watkins - he died in 1833 aged 41.

 

[charwatkin]

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[charwatkin]

Henry is listed on the Probate Calander as Death in Brecon on: 11 Dec 1868  and his Probate date as: 23 Jan 1869  

It said he was a farmer of late at Henbant farm w/effects under 800L
Was proved in Hereford by oath of Evan Powell of Gwrlode  in the  Parish aforesaid Farmer sole Executor. It gives how many acres the farm was on the 1861 census, but I can't read. It appears to be 3 digits, but is that possible? Someone farther up on the page has 8 acres.

It would be great to buy a copy of the marriage certificate. How do we do that from the U.S.? Could we get the Will of Henry Sykes, as well??

I looked at George and his wife, Mary. It seems they had several children, with the last being born in 1832 & buried 19 months later, in May of 1834. Possibly, he did not list father at marriage since he was deceased?

I am so thankful to have your input, as understanding of the way things are worded and how they were done can be confusing for someone like me!

[charwatkin]

Birthplace mystery solved~

I mentioned earlier that John Watkins had stated in on census that he was born in Llantillo Crosseney & another it sayd Llafangel (or whatever  )

I went back and checked. It was the transciber, who I believe made an error. On the 881 census, the person listed BEFORE John is in Llafangel and then on John's line below it, the census person made the mark, as if John's was the same as the person above. It seems strange, so I am pretty sure, it is Llantillo Crosseney, as is what the '71 censes says... and where his Parish Marriage Record is.

[osprey]

you can order the marriage cert online using the ref I gave you in my first reply

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

This gives you info about ordering a will

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,581696.0.html

8 acres would be a very small farm. Think 1861 might say 150 acres, 1851 looks like 60 acres.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre

[charwatkin]

I found a site and ordered John & Elizabeth's Marriage Certificate. Cost a bit oer $40, so will wait until next pay to order Henry Syke's Will. That is a bit cheaper.

I thought it said 150 acres, as well. I noticed that in '61 that John & Elizabeth's two older children are living with their Gram, Elizabeth and the rest of family has moved on to Lanbedr. Great for Gram but said the boys are separated from their parents & siblings.