Request for parents of John Chappell CLARK

[BristolClark]

Hello,

My very first time on Rootschat, and having followed the rules posted, I hope I am posting within guidelines. If not, then please accept my embarrassed apologies. 

My request is for my 4xGreat Grandfather, John Chappell Clark b.abt 1816 in Churchill, Somerset, England and d.June 1874 Bristol, England.

He is in the 1841 England census resident in Bedminster aged 25. He is dwelling in #16 with his wife and children. He married an Ann Caple and had 6 children, Jane, Robert, James, Susan, George Cole and William John, but only Jane, Robert and James are mentioned as alive and living with John and Ann.

In the same house is also an Elizabeth Caple aged 12, who I presume must be related to Ann (a possible sister? cousin? daughter?) but is not indicated as such on the census.

There are two 60 year old dwellers of #16, William Challenger and Mary Jones, but neither are mentioned as related.

For the sake of clarity, there are others also mentioned: Lot Pitman aged 15, Mathilda Davis aged 30 and Louisa aged 1. Again, not indicated as related to the Clark's.

I have been in contact with a few cousins who also descend from John Chappell Clark, but each one has been hit by a brick wall like my own. We had been in contact with a local woman in Cross Compton Bishop for Ann Caple, but seemingly she is non-existent pre-1841 census too.

I'd like to request if anyone can find out his birth date and death date and his parents names (and locations - if possible).

Many thanks.

[DRH123]

Can't see a John Chappel Clark around 1816, but FreeREG shows two James Chapel Clarks in the right area.

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Baptisms&RecordID=1875821

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Baptisms&RecordID=4211315

Perhaps one of those is a misreading of John. Although it was quite common for families to reuse the name of a child who died young.

Even if neither of these is your John, it must be very likely that they're his brothers.

[BristolClark]

Can't see a John Chappel Clark around 1816, but FreeREG shows two James Chapel Clarks in the right area.

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Baptisms&RecordID=1875821

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Baptisms&RecordID=4211315

  Absolutely amazing! Thank you very much. 

Thank you for bringing freereg to my attention also.

Even if neither of these is your John, it must be very likely that they're his brothers.

It would seem it foolish to discount that, but I did overlook the fact that on the census, John Clark is spelt with an 'e' on the end.

Would this correlate with your results or perhaps throw up a different result altogether?

And again, my thanks for your help.

[DRH123]

I wouldn't place any significance on whether a particular record spells the name Clark or Clarke (or Clerk or Clerke), spellings weren't fixed in those days.  I ticked the Soundex box when searching FreeREG, so it would have found either spelling.

FreeREG is a marvellous resource, compiled by many volunteers (including me) but it is not yet complete. You can see which parishes and dates are covered at this page:

http://www.freereg.org.uk/parishes/som/frontpage.shtml

If you look at Churchill you'll see we only have the baptisms 1813-1846 at present, though the earlier ones are in progress. So it's possible that James and Hester Clark had other children before 1813 that don't show on FreeREG. Maybe John was a little older that you think. (25 in 1841 census means born 1811-1816.)

The Churchill marriages are also still in progress, but I have the CD index to North Somerset marriages provided by the Bristol & Avon FHS, and that shows a wedding on 28 Mar 1808 between James Clark and Hester Tripp, a widow.  That's probably the couple with the sons called James Chapell, perhaps Chapell was Hester's maiden name.

David

[P56]

This is my first time on RootsChat having only recently started looking at my family history so hope this finds it's way to the message board to BristolClark.   I have found a John Chappell Clark b.1813, Churchill Somerset, Tanner, died 1874, Bristol.  Married Ann Parfem Capel b. 24.6.1807 from Compton Bishop. Had a brother(?)James, who was baptised in 1813 and died in 1815.  I think their father was James Clarke b.1752, d 1828 -m- (28.3.08) Hester Tripp (widow?) ( perhaps Chappel was her maiden name?) died 1835, Blackmoor, aged 62.   James b.1752 would be my 4xGreat Grandfather.

[JenClark]

Hello P56 & BristolClark,

I too am related to this family. BristolClark, I see you have already found me elsewhere and I have replied to your e-mail with more info on Ann Parfery Capel and John Chappel Clark, I hope you find the info interesting 

John Chappel Clark was baptised on 13th Jan 1813 at Churchill, Somerset to James Chappel & Hester Clark
He died on 9th Jan 1867 at Charlotte Street, Bedminster Bristol, from bronchitis & pneumonia, aged 53yrs - I have the cert if you are interested - I am not sure who the 1874  death is for that you both mentioned??

I agree with DRH123, I think the 1813 entry in Churchill on freereg is actually supposed to read John Chappel Clark not James, I also have the record for James Chappel Clark in 1815 as a likely brother to our John. Do you have the death record for James P56? I have not seen this one before and would be interested in adding it to my records.

It was James Chappel Clark (b 1783 Churchill) who married Hester Tripp (widow) in 1808 in Churchill. They lived in Blackmoor, Churchill.

He was baptised on 21 Sept 1783 at Churchill, and his father was also James Clark and his mother Liddy (Lydia, Leddy, Ledia) Howlett who also lived in Blackmoor.
This is the James Clark that belongs to the burial in Churchill on 27 Aug 1828 (aged 71yrs), he was born in abt 1757.

I think 'Chappel' may come from further back in the Clark line as James is known as James Chappel Clark in the baptism records of his children. As to Hester's maiden name...I am not sure but I have found two possible marriages for her prior to her 1808 marriage to James Chappel Clark.

John Tripp otp, s & Hester Wilkins otp, s 1 Dec 1789 Congresbury by licence
John Tripp & Hester Tutt 31 July 1805 Bedminster

Lydia actually shows up in the 1841 census and appears to have died in 1848.

1841 census - Blackmoor, Churchill, Somerset

Lydia Clark 83yrs born in county


Let me know what you both think 

Jenny

[JenClark]

I think their father was James Clarke b.1752, d 1828 -m- (28.3.08) Hester Tripp (widow?) ( perhaps Chappel was her maiden name?) died 1835, Blackmoor, aged 62.   James b.1752 would be my 4xGreat Grandfather.

Just noticed P56 that you have a death for Hester Clark.....I had not seen this before either, if she died in 1835 at Blackmoor aged 62yrs then she would be born abt 1773 right? So that makes her 10 years older than her hubby...interesting 

With the marriages that I found for Tripp's, she could be 32yrs old in the 1805 marriage or 16yrs in the 1789 marriage......or be from a completely different marriage entirely....

Do you have the details? I would love to add them to the tree!

Jenny

P.S I have loads of info on Ann Parfery Capel and the Capel's of Compton Bishop if you are interested too P56 

[BristolClark]

Thank you very much for all your help, David. 

This is my first time on RootsChat having only recently started looking at my family history so hope this finds it's way to the message board to BristolClark.   I have found a John Chappell Clark b.1813, Churchill Somerset, Tanner, died 1874, Bristol.  Married Ann Parfem Capel b. 24.6.1807 from Compton Bishop. Had a brother(?)James, who was baptised in 1813 and died in 1815.  I think their father was James Clarke b.1752, d 1828 -m- (28.3.08) Hester Tripp (widow?) ( perhaps Chappel was her maiden name?) died 1835, Blackmoor, aged 62.   James b.1752 would be my 4xGreat Grandfather.

Hello P56. It's good to hear from another descendant of John Chappel Clark. 

John Chappel Clark was baptised on 13th Jan 1813 at Churchill, Somerset to James Chappel & Hester Clark
He died on 9th Jan 1867 at Charlotte Street, Bedminster Bristol, from bronchitis & pneumonia, aged 53yrs - I have the cert if you are interested - I am not sure who the 1874  death is for that you both mentioned??

I took the death date for John from a clue on Ancestry. It had him down as dying in 1874. I hadn't found any other John Clark in Bristol, so being my first time on ancestry, I took it as correct.

http://i.imgur.com/6KzPb.jpg

I think 'Chappel' may come from further back in the Clark line as James is known as James Chappel Clark in the baptism records of his children.

I'm wondering if perhaps the name could have been a name shared by both John Clark and Ann Capel along their individual lineages. Both 'Chappel' and 'Capel' both derive for either a topographical name for living near a chapel or from Kent. Interestingly, the name is ultimately thought to have been 'Capa'. My 3xgreat-Grandad had a son called John Chappa Clark, or as it has been transcribed in the census at least.

Here is the photo of Ann Capel. I got this off of a distant cousin who descends from William Clark who is also pictured. Unfortunately they didn't have a photo of John.

http://i.imgur.com/70gN2.jpg

[JenClark]

Hey John,

Thank you very much for the picture of Ann Parfery Clark and her son William, lovely to 'see' her finally 

As to John Chappel Clark's death, it is definitely 9th Jan 1867, if you look in the registers it is recorded as:

Deaths Mar Q 1867
Clark John Chapple    53yrs    Bedminster    5c   570

I have the actual certificate, which shows that he died in Charlotte Street, Bedminster where the family was living in the 1861 census.

You have to be careful with Ancestry 'hints', as they are just that hints and suggestions. In this case there is another John Clark who died in 1874 who was also born in 1813, there will be many many John Clark's born in abt 1813, so I always check everything against lots of different references to confirm if I can. Unfortunately for us Clark is a very common name, and is often mis spelt as Clarke too. But luckily for us our Clark's often had very distinctive middle names 

You are correct in saying that many of our family had Capel or Chappel as middle names, I think I can count 7 or 8 at least just in a couple of generations. Your 3 x great grandfather's son is actually John Chappel Clark (b abt 1868), the census records you also have to watch...they are often mistranscribed and are really the enumerators interpretation of others handwriting which was often very poor, so yet again best to check the actual BMD data if you can. As there is often a child with Capel as a middle name and another with Chappel as a middle name in the same family, I think they are passing down two distinct names.

Having said that, I am trying to locate in my records why I have given James Clark who married Hester Tripp 'Chappel' as a middle name!! I will let you know what I find...as perhaps I have gotten confused with his son James Chappel Clark.....

Jenny